D&D 5E On Representation and Roleplaying

[Dannyalcatraz]

Better to just ignore Ad_hoc, as he is not worth your time. Or if you disagree with him enough, he will just put you on ignore. Probably half the members here are on his ignore list.

Mod Note:

This is an unnecessarily provocative & personal way to express this. Be better, next time.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Oh, just call me a fascist and get done with it.

The fact this is a tactic used by people with malign intent does not mean everyone who thinks there's good and bad ways to do something is a concern troll. That's just a cheap way to blow off any criticism you're not willing to engage with.

Mod Note:

Understand the overall sentiment, but the opening sentence there is a bit provocative. If someone pushes your buttons like that, try not to add fuel to the fire.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Being a white heterosexual author doesn't really give you a whole lot of insight into being a white heterosexual author in New York during the 1920s. Wouldn't you have to be just as extremely well educated about culture to write about him as you would about an African American character during that same era? Furthermore, a black author doesn't necessarily have any particular insight into the culture of the 1920s. They would also need to do a lot of research to know enough to write effectively.

Edit: Weird that I put in author instead of male. But I'm gonna keep it.

The point wasn't that you need to be of group X to write about group X, but you have to be extremely knowledgeable about group X. It is reasonable that writer members of group X would be more knowledgeable than the average writer not member of group X and would at least have the reflex to look into things that might escape the non-knowledgeable, non-member of group X. Though as you said, it's not an automatic thing and the more removed the author is from the period he writes about, the less likely it is.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think I'm pretty damn progressive and for diversity and inclusivity. I want broad representation and I want real cultures treated with respect. That being said, I find that certain current forms of worrying about cultural appropriation and respectful representation* seem potentially a tad counterproductive to me. There is rather strong pressure for people to 'stay in their lane' which in effect might end up narrowing representation rather than broadening it.

(* Note, I want to be absolutely clear, as this a sensitive topic. I said 'certain forms of worrying.' Most worrying about this stuff is perfectly justified and warranted!)

Now relating to the RPG hobby, it is a well know fact that for decades fantasy has been very Eurocentric, and there have been very justified calls for diversification. Recently there was discussion about certain mythology supplement on these boards, and the creator justified it focusing on Europe only as 'avoiding cultural appropriation.' This really made me raise my eyebrow. It is not the sort of effect I want. And sure, companies could and should hire people from varied backgrounds, but especially for small companies that really isn't always possible. Nor I really think one needs to be an Asian to respectfully write about Chinese mythology etc, nor I think that some American writer happening to share my skin tone in any way or form makes them automatically qualified to write about Finnish mythology.

 

[MGibster]

The point wasn't that you need to be of group X to write about group X, but you have to be extremely knowledgeable about group X. It is reasonable that writer members of group X would be more knowledgeable than the average writer not member of group X and would at least have the reflex to look into things that might escape the non-knowledgeable, non-member of group X. Though as you said, it's not an automatic thing and the more removed the author is from the period he writes about, the less likely it is.

Last year (I think, COVID makes time seem weird), there was a discussion here about a company releasing a fantasy game set in not-Africa. Some folks specifically asked if any people of color were involved in that production, and when it appeared as though this wasn't the case, other posters pointed to another similar project that was headed up by a black male in part because his involvement didn't involve appropriation. Nobody in that thread expressed any concerns about whether the people involved in either production were experts or otherwise knowledgeable about any groups of people in Africa. And that's a recurring pattern I see in these discussions. It's not about what you know it's about what others perceive your identity to be.

 

[Vaalingrade]

(who goes after "cultural sensitivity" careers?)

People with an accurate understanding of different cultures who want to spread that understanding and reduce misinformation?

 

[Irlo]

But it should be possible for J. Random Anycolor to write a setting with any set of cultures, without having to hire cultural sensitivity readers and whatnot. Otherwise you're adding a burden of time, cost, and a political filter (who goes after "cultural sensitivity" careers?) onto everything that gets published, and ultimately selecting out all the people who don't want to deal with the new and changing requirements.

There is already a political filter on every published game setting, whether the writers (and readers) see it or not. Better I think to have a fliter that is thoughtful and deliberate, so that the published work meets the creators' goals, than to have a filter based on unexamined biases and assumptions that cause the work to miss the intended mark.

 

[Oofta]

There has been criticism recently about the new episodes of Critical Role being set in Marquet which is not based on pseudo-European medieval society, but is instead loosely based on SWANA [SouthWest Asian/North African] culture[article]. The problem? The entire cast is Caucasian and somehow that means cultural appropriation.

Because somehow having a region and culture that steps outside of the "safe zone" of fantasy culture is wrong, no matter how many professional consultants they employ. I mean, I get it. There have been many truly bad depictions of non-western cultures. I've made a hash of my own "eastern" civilization in my home campaign which is why I don't use it very often. Then again, my primary mythology is only loosely based Norse mythology with a smattering of Celtic but since it's the mythology of my ancestors?

The problem is that as authors of fictional worlds we have to draw inspiration from somewhere. Just about any type of culture we create will bear a passing resemblance to some real world culture. I think we need to be sensitive to that, but there's a difference between having a culture and region loosely based on a real world culture and the equivalent of campaign world blackface. We can draw inspiration from and ideas from the real world without falling into caricature. I don't think my ancestry matters.

In other words, my dwarves don't have a Scottish accent. People that portray a Scottish accent on TV and movies just happen to sound a lot like dwarves.

 

[Bolares]

There has been criticism recently about the new episodes of Critical Role being set in Marquet which is not based on pseudo-European medieval society, but is instead loosely based on SWANA [SouthWest Asian/North African] culture[1]. The problem? The entire cast is Caucasian and somehow that means cultural appropriation.

Because somehow having a region and culture that steps outside of the "safe zone" of fantasy culture is wrong, no matter how many professional consultants they employ. I mean, I get it. There have been many truly bad depictions of non-western cultures. I've made a hash of my own "eastern" civilization in my home campaign which is why I don't use it very often. Then again, my primary mythology is only loosely based Norse mythology with a smattering of Celtic but since it's the mythology of my ancestors?

The problem is that as authors of fictional worlds we have to draw inspiration from somewhere. Just about any type of culture we create will bear a passing resemblance to some real world culture. I think we need to be sensitive to that, but there's a difference between having a culture and region loosely based on a real world culture and the equivalent of campaign world blackface. We can draw inspiration from and ideas from the real world without falling into caricature. I don't think my ancestry matters.

In other words, my dwarves don't have a Scottish accent. People that portray a Scottish accent on TV and movies just happen to sound a lot like dwarves.

Mercer has said some words about that in the critrole site:

"Marquet is a fantasy continent, and one that (like other places in Exandria) occasionally holds nuggets of inspiration from Earth cultures and locations that I have a deep appreciation for. It is a unique place with unique people and civilizations occasionally woven with touchstones that call to our real world experiences in some ways, lending a familiarity and celebrating aspects of those same languages and cultures without appropriating them. I have been and will continue to be working with professional cultural & sensitivity consultants throughout the worldbuilding and presentation of Marquet to ensure I do my best to do just that."

A Warm Welcome to Marquet and Campaign 3! | Critical Role

critrole.com

 

[Micah Sweet]

Mercer has said some words about that in the critrole site:

"Marquet is a fantasy continent, and one that (like other places in Exandria) occasionally holds nuggets of inspiration from Earth cultures and locations that I have a deep appreciation for. It is a unique place with unique people and civilizations occasionally woven with touchstones that call to our real world experiences in some ways, lending a familiarity and celebrating aspects of those same languages and cultures without appropriating them. I have been and will continue to be working with professional cultural & sensitivity consultants throughout the worldbuilding and presentation of Marquet to ensure I do my best to do just that."

A Warm Welcome to Marquet and Campaign 3! | Critical Role

critrole.com

I hope that's enough for everyone. For someone as high-profile and as respected as Mercer, it probably will be. For a lot of other current and would-be designers, maybe not.