D&D 5E Casters vs Martials: Part 1 - Magic, its most basic components

[Gammadoodler]

It isn't a fake ID like a card.

This is a new identity. Meaning that you could change your identity to be several ranks above the guards that won't let anyone in.

You could become the king's new royal advisor, seated right beside him to the throne. Or you could be a high-ranking lieutenant in the BBEG's office. The player gets to decide.

But just like a spell, the DM determines the consequences.

So it takes 7 days because it actually can be adventure-changing and can change whole plot points.

Are any of these results you could not achieve by just..lying? If so, why?

 

[HammerMan]

It isn't a fake ID like a card.

This is a new identity. Meaning that you could change your identity to be several ranks above the guards that won't let anyone in.

yeah, that is what I meant... go watch any episode of leverage or burn notice... they make the Identity in anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours.

 

[HammerMan]

Mostly I just think it'd be funny if the whole narrative of "no one plays past 10" is indicative of the quality of the content past 10 rather than the attributes of the audience.

I am sure it doesn't help that those that WANT to try find hastly scribbled mechanics... but I think it is a time thing.

Going from 3rd level to 16th level takes us about a year of (mostly)weekly games. getting to 17th or 18th take each another month or more... by then you have new ideas (you the player and you the DM) to try out.

 

[Asisreo]

Are any of these results you could not achieve by just..lying? If so, why?

"Hold on, let me check the records..." "There's nothing here saying you have access to this room. Now, move along."

The same reason why making a fake ID and lying won't get you into the Royal Guards. There's actual documentation that says "Hey, this guy in a trench coat actually isn't a part of our elite squad. We shouldn't just believe him."

But if you're just allowed to lie yourself into the throne room as an opposing nation's king's advisor because you talk good, then I can see why that would be a useless feature.

Just like if anyone could use a disguise kit and make disguise self useless since "Well, clearly I should be able to make a costume that makes me completely different with no issues."

 

[Minigiant]

It would be interesting to know if there is any correlation in players' character class selections and player attrition. I suspect there is a greater correlation with like, life happening, but it would be interesting.

I think the back down of utility balance between classes in the post 12th level or so play added to the back down of campaigns. Again most of the original book and movie inspirations for D&D are low level.

I think D&D just lucked out that the breakdown of campaigns correlated to when the class imbalance became apparent.

 

[Minigiant]

Mostly I just think it'd be funny if the whole narrative of "no one plays past 10" is indicative of the quality of the content past 10 rather than the attributes of the audience.

Again I don't think it's less quality and more inspiration. The character that the D&D classes as base on where all low level (except for the wizard)

There no level 20 people on Earth. So at a certain level you can't use the features of real people or gritty character as examples of high level PCs.

 

[HammerMan]

Again I don't think it's less quality and more inspiration. The character that the D&D classes as base on where all low level (except for the wizard)

There no level 20 people on Earth. So at a certain level you can't use the features of real people or gritty character as examples of high level PCs.

yeah but we have plenty of comic books anime and even movies and high fantasy books now... no need to limit it to what EGG read.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Again I don't think it's less quality and more inspiration. The character that the D&D classes as base on where all low level (except for the wizard)

There no level 20 people on Earth. So at a certain level you can't use the features of real people or gritty character as examples of high level PCs.

Keeping in mind I'd guess that if there was some kind of correlation, it's probably very very very weak as compared to things like kids, jobs, school, DM burnout, interpersonal issues, etc.

With that in mind, I'd wonder if there are vastly more wizards and whatnot than there are superhuman warriors in the media used as inspiration. I doubt it.

The superhuman strong dude has been around as an archetype for a long time in a wide variety of cultural contexts and media. Various folks have cited examples in this thread.

So I hope that isn't the problem. And if WoTC is truly trying to use real-life example of human warriors as their mold for what features they should get in a fantasy rpg, the problem is bigger than I thought.

 

[Minigiant]

Keeping in mind I'd guess that if there was some kind of correlation, it's probably very very very weak as compared to things like kids, jobs, school, DM burnout, interpersonal issues, etc

I agree. There are many factors. However I think the lack of inspiration in the post 10th level player sphere combined with complexity increases ensures that the "paragon" tier of play is often the farther people can go.

With that in mind, I'd wonder if there are vastly more wizards and whatnot than there are superhuman warriors in the media used as inspiration. I doubt it.

The superhuman strong dude has been around as an archetype for a long time in a wide variety of cultural contexts and media. Various folks have cited examples in this thread

I didn't say there isn't examples of high level warriors in the media

I said there aren't many examples of highl level warriors in inspiratioal media for traditional D&D.

Aragorn is in the early mid teens of levels and even that is a stretch. Same with or lower level for many of the other inspirations for classes.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Overnight recovery from the brink of death? Check. No, I don't think they are using anything real life as a guideline.

Aragorn is in the early mid teens of levels and even that is a stretch. Same with or lower level for many of the other inspirations for classes.

I'd put him around level 5-10, in the second tier, in term of power level. Middle Earth is very low powered. Gandalf doing "I am no wizard of small tricks" is using... a Prestidigitation cantrip?