D&D 5E Aren't Short Rest classes *better* in "story-based" games rather than dungeon crawls?

[Mordhau]

Out of curiosity, and perhaps to be picked, what's an example of an adventure with sufficient Time Pressure as that an idle hour is too narrow of time to rest?

You're infiltrating an enemy stronghold and you've just killed some guards.

Given an hour the bodies have likely been discovered and a full blown search is underway.

 

[Asisreo]

You're infiltrating an enemy stronghold and you've just killed some guards.

Given an hour the bodies have likely been discovered and a full blown search is underway.

This may lead into a back-and-forth so I apologize in advance.

Two questions: Would burying the bodies not stall for time?

Is this not a full adventuring day setup? It seems like a classic dungeon crawl.

 

[Mordhau]

This may lead into a back-and-forth so I apologize in advance.

Two questions: Would burying the bodies not stall for time?

Maybe maybe not. It depends on whether the PCs can plausibly go under the radar. If for example, they've thrown around fireballs and the like, then they can't exactly bury the damage that causes.

Of course plausibly this creates immediate attention, but dungeon crawling has always had this issue, and it least allows for the possibility that if the PCs leave the area of the fight immediately, then they can get ahead of the search.

Is this not a full adventuring day setup? It seems like a classic dungeon crawl.

Well yes. That's the issue. It's always felt to me that if the Party has somewhere safe enough and unobtrusive enough to rest up for an hour and eat some food, then they're likely always going to be thinking "hey, this place seems quiet and secure why don't we take a long rest?"

 

[Asisreo]

Well yes. That's the issue. It's always felt to me that if the Party has somewhere safe enough and unobtrusive enough to rest up for an hour and eat some food, then they're likely always going to be thinking "hey, this place seems quiet and secure why don't we take a long rest?"

But I'm talking about days that are less reminiscent of dungeon crawls.

I think D&D has the most balance in dungeon crawls anyways due to time, space, and resource limitations following a somewhat predictable pattern. The siege example makes it extremely easy to fit 6-8 combat encounters and 2 short rests merely by pacing the encounters with rooms that "appear safe" or "can be barricaded easily."

But it's often stated that "games outside the full adventuring day guidelines makes Warlocks weaker." I'm trying to figure out how.

 

[Mordhau]

But I'm talking about days that are less reminiscent of dungeon crawls.

I think D&D has the most balance in dungeon crawls anyways due to time, space, and resource limitations following a somewhat predictable pattern. The siege example makes it extremely easy to fit 6-8 combat encounters and 2 short rests merely by pacing the encounters with rooms that "appear safe" or "can be barricaded easily."

But it's often stated that "games outside the full adventuring day guidelines makes Warlocks weaker." I'm trying to figure out how.

Surely that's easy. The PCs don't do anything that sparks multiple combats. Their investigating in town, or their travelling through the wilderness, and you haven't done anything to alter the rest schedule.

Even in terms of utility, in theory if there is little combat the Warlock should be able to cast utility spells, but they know few spells, and they don't know if using spell slots out of combat is going to come back and bite them.

My feeling though is that this is not a problem with the Warlock. The Warlock class is actually fine, and the trade-offs in terms of spell slots between combat and utility are about right. It's the full casters that are the problem - they have far too many spell slots and ritual casting costs too little.

 

[Asisreo]

The PCs don't do anything that sparks multiple combats. Their investigating in town, or their travelling through the wilderness, and you haven't done anything to alter the rest schedule.

But those are the situations where the warlock can take an hour rest while everyone else is doing their own thing. Even if they're traveling, there's 8 hours of traveling, 8 hours of long resting, and 8 hours of absolutely nothing. Even with a combat encounter, that's at best 7 hours and 59 minutes of time for the warlock to cast a bunch of spells.

Nevermind the fact that if they encounter a non-combat obstacle, the warlock can resolve it and everyone spends one of their 8 unaccounted for hours to rest. They'd still cover the same ground.

 

[Mordhau]

But those are the situations where the warlock can take an hour rest while everyone else is doing their own thing. Even if they're traveling, there's 8 hours of traveling, 8 hours of long resting, and 8 hours of absolutely nothing. Even with a combat encounter, that's at best 7 hours and 59 minutes of time for the warlock to cast a bunch of spells.

Being able to take short rests easily doesn't really matter if everyone else is able to take long rests just as easily.

Nevermind the fact that if they encounter a non-combat obstacle, the warlock can resolve it and everyone spends one of their 8 unaccounted for hours to rest. They'd still cover the same ground.

Assuming they know for certain they can rest immediately afterwards. Otherwise the Wizard has a distinct advantage as they sacrfice a lot less when they spend one of their spell slots (Unless it turns out to be a long enough day as to seriously drain those spell slots - but we're specifically addressing situations where that is not the case)

 

[Asisreo]

Being able to take short rests easily doesn't really matter if everyone else is able to take long rests just as easily.

You can only have 1 long rest per 24 hours. So even if there was the idea of taking long rests repeatedly, that still gives more slots to the warlock since between every long rest, there can fit several short rests.

Assuming they know for certain they can rest immediately afterwards. Otherwise the Wizard has a distinct advantage as they sacrfice a lot less when they spend one of their spell slots (Unless it turns out to be a long enough day as to seriously drain those spell slots - but we're specifically addressing situations where that is not the case)

How often are there situations where the party can't rest immediately after resolving an issue outside a dungeon crawl?

And even then, "distinct advantage" is a bit of a stretch. Warlocks are competent in combat even without slots, though unless the fight was an extremely deadly encounter, would it matter?

Like, a level 9 warlock used both 5th-level slots to cast Major Image twice 30 minutes ago and a Young Red Dragon appears...the party will still beat it with minimal effort and the warlock has more than enough ways to contribute even without their 5th-level slots. Then the warlock can rest and continue contributing.

 

[Mordhau]

You can only have 1 long rest per 24 hours. So even if there was the idea of taking long rests repeatedly, that still gives more slots to the warlock since between every long rest, there can fit several short rests.

So? What is the Warlock spending those slots on? If there's no immediate problems that need solving with magic what does it matter?

How often are there situations where the party can't rest immediately after resolving an issue outside a dungeon crawl?

Well, whenever the failure to resolve the issue results in a combat for one.

 

[Raduin711]

Because the rest of the party is, in general, incentivized to also short rest if one person is able to take one. You can spend HD, you regain any short-rest features you may have (more relevant for some classes than others, see below). Splitting the party is (almost) always a bad plan, and if one person is genuinely truly safe and comfortable enough to rest reliably, it's not clear why everyone wouldn't be.

That's true in the more dungeon-focused periods of the game, but I think during the story sections this adherence to sticking together is somewhat relaxed. Characters can be doing things like gathering information, studying, shopping, drinking at the tavern, and so on, any of which could take an hour or more. A warlock taking an hour to rest is one blip among many.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. Some classes are just more useful during these moments of the game than others. Bards have always been masters of the schmooze and information gathering, while barbarians... need... their energies directed in a constructive direction, let's say. The fact that Warlocks have one up on wizards and sorcerers during these times is no big deal IMO. Nor do I think it's necessarily disruptive. It CAN be, if we are on a time-sensitive story beat and the warlock insists on a rest, but the warlock isn't even unique in this regard.