D&D 5E Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"

[Lyxen]

Yes, in the sense that (a) I find these levels far far more tedious than challenging,

And of course, playing D&D is supposed to be a challenge.

If you're going to make claims of this nature, provide the statistics. Otherwise, stop acting like you know any better than anyone else here what the preferences of players are.

Man, just check out the various polls about the levels people play at, it's not hard, for example here: 90% of games stop by level 10, so if you start at level 5, it does not give you that wide a range. Or here: "It turns out that most players never reach beyond level five."

See also here for the favourite level to start playing, 85% prefer to start at level 1.

So no, I don't claim to know better than everyone, but I certainly claim to know better than you. But if you don't believe me, provide data, or start your own poll.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

And of course, playing D&D is supposed to be a challenge.

Given the number of posters in this thread who explicitly said that's something they want, yes.

As for the rest: Forum polls are not useful statistics, and you know this already.

 

[Islayre d'Argolh]

Venomfang is a regular TPK as well.

True.
But it can be slayed at level 4 so, according to you, level 4 d&d is real d&d

 

[Lyxen]

Given the number of posters in this thread who explicitly said that's something they want, yes.

Yeah, right, wasn't it you who said "Forum polls are not useful statistics", and it's not even a poll ? Are you even going to tell people that playing D&D without a challenge is wrong ?

As for the rest: Forum polls are not useful statistics, and you know this already.

First, it's still better than your personal opinion, and second, if you had read, two of the articles are actually based on DDB data, which is for at least tens of thousands of players. So, you're wrong. Deal with it.

 

[Dausuul]

And of course, playing D&D is supposed to be a challenge.

Whether it's supposed to be a challenge depends on player preference. But I have never met nor heard of any player who preferred it to be tedious.

 

[Oofta]

This whole idea that first level PCs drop like flies and can't have interesting adventures is just odd to me. My rate of PCs dying is pretty steady across all levels - it's based on how dangerous a game the players want. Yes, there are things like revivify and raise dead at higher levels, but at higher levels it's not that hard to ensure the body is not available.

The adventures are different, but it just means that low level PCs can't rely on spells or abilities to solve problems. They have to rely on wits and planning, and knowing when to run. Even though my campaigns typically go to 20, I personally find low levels more fun and meaningful.

 

[Oofta]

Whether it's supposed to be a challenge depends on player preference. But I have never met nor heard of any player who preferred it to be tedious.

In my experience if any level of play is tedious, it's not a problem of the system.

 

[loverdrive]

Don't know about "training wheels", but it's pretty much a different game. But, well, D&D, at least, 5E is like five different games stitched into one:

• Ridiculously deadly lvl 1
• Low-power, gritty lvls 2-4
• John Wick-tier lvls 5-10
• Batman-tier lvls 11-16
• WTF IS GOING ON?!-tier lvls 17+

 

[loverdrive]

This whole idea that first level PCs drop like flies and can't have interesting adventures is just odd to me. My rate of PCs dying is pretty steady across all levels - it's based on how dangerous a game the players want.

I don't think that there's any other point in the game where enemies of appropriate CR can one-shot PCs like it's no one's business. Also, hazards.

Pretty much all hazards in the DMG table can at least down a lvl 1 PC, even something as trivial as "Burned by coals, hit by a falling bookcase, pricked by a poison needle".

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Don't know about "training wheels", but it's pretty much a different game. But, well, D&D, at least, 5E is like five different games stitched into one:

• Ridiculously deadly lvl 1
• Low-power, gritty lvls 2-4
• John Wick-tier lvls 5-10
• Batman-tier lvls 11-16
• WTF IS GOING ON?!-tier lvls 17+

Sure. And I think this is a good thing. I really see not point in the sort of levelling where the numbers just get bigger but nothing substantial changes.