D&D 5E Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"

[loverdrive]

Sure. And I think this is a good thing. I really see not point in the sort of levelling where the numbers just get bigger but nothing substantial changes.

I also think this is a good thing, as WotC-era D&D is pretty much the only game that can give me that ridiculous power curve.

But levelling up ain't just bigger numbers, though. At least, it doesn't have to be -- many games have meaningful horizontal progression without making previous threats laughably trivial later in the game.

 

[Lyxen]

Whether it's supposed to be a challenge depends on player preference. But I have never met nor heard of any player who preferred it to be tedious.

And what does tediousness have to do with challenges ? It's a roleplaying game, so yes, maybe some people will find just the absence of story and meaningful NPCs tedious. Again, there are many playstyles, and challenges are not mandatory to have fun.

 

[Mezuka]

The first two levels are like a horror game, but not as deadly as they used to be. You level up after only one short adventure, you get all HPs after a night sleep and you get three death saves.

I've always started my D&D at level 3 since the middle of 2e. Excepts 4e as the PCs were more robust.

 

[Oofta]

I don't think that there's any other point in the game where enemies of appropriate CR can one-shot PCs like it's no one's business. Also, hazards.

Pretty much all hazards in the DMG table can at least down a lvl 1 PC, even something as trivial as "Burned by coals, hit by a falling bookcase, pricked by a poison needle".

Which just means you can't just say "I do something stupid because I can take the damage".

 

[Oofta]

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with starting at a higher level. I just don't think the low level game is inherently bad, deadly, tedious or boring. The game is what you make of it.

 

[loverdrive]

Which just means you can't just say "I do something stupid because I can take the damage".

Yeah, but the amount of stupid things you can get away with is real small at lvl 1. At, say, lvl 5, you'll die if you piss off a lich. At lvl 1, you'll probably die, if you piss off like five bandits. All in all, liches are far less common than bandits.

 

[Minigiant]

True.
But it can be slayed at level 4 so, according to you, level 4 d&d is real d&d

It can be slain if you are lucky or powergame. But Venomfang is intended to chicken out after being scratched.

If you fully or partially engage without powergaming it deals ~21 damage a turn vs AC 17 and has a 42 damage breath weapon.

 

[Minigiant]

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with starting at a higher level. I just don't think the low level game is inherently bad, deadly, tedious or boring. The game is what you make of it.

I agree. Low levels isn't bad or boring.

But I also agree with the OP's friend that that full game doesn't start until level 5.

 

[Islayre d'Argolh]

It can be slain if you are lucky or powergame. But Venomfang is intended to chicken out after being scratched.

If you fully or partially engage without powergaming it deals ~21 damage a turn vs AC 17 and has a 42 damage breath weapon.

Venomfang is slayed on a regular basis by pregen level 4 characters. No powergaming here when your theory don't match the facts, change the theory not the facts
And by the way White & Black dragons are weaker than Green dragons : if Venomfang is killable, Cryovain is even more so.

 

[Oofta]

Yeah, but the amount of stupid things you can get away with is real small at lvl 1. At, say, lvl 5, you'll die if you piss off a lich. At lvl 1, you'll probably die, if you piss off like five bandits. All in all, liches are far less common than bandits.

So ... don't piss off the bandits. Set up traps, pick them off one by one, divide and conquer. Maybe just gather Intel for the town guard.

At level 5, it's no guarantee in my games that pissing off the bandits will work for the PCs either.