D&D 5E Should All Subclasses Be Gained at 1st Level?

[Minigiant]

yup all great examples... but even just the PHB has arcane trickster/eldritch knight/battlemaster/Bladesinger all things I can't imagine 'turning on' at level past 1

However those type of PCs function at 1st level. An eldritch knight is still a functioning Str/Int Fighter levels 1-2.

The STR monk doesn't work until it gets the subclass.

But the STR monk shouldn't be a subclass. The STR monk should be a fighting style..

Or at least the Monk should be able to choose between different Unarmored Defense options.

 

[Faolyn]

I think they should split the difference and have all classes gain their archetypes at level two. This would help to prevent obnoxious dips without delaying people who seriously want those powers for too long, and first level would act as an apprenticeship for all those spellcasters who now get their archetypes at level one.

 

[HammerMan]

However those type of PCs function at 1st level. An eldritch knight is still a functioning Str/Int Fighter levels 1-2.

eldritch knogjt is the closest to working since you can trade your fighting style for cantrips.
in general a str/int fighter or dex/int rogue isn't what people are going for... it is spell casting fighter or spell casting rogue.

 

[Blue]

yes. This is why I would prefer more uniform classes and more 4e style multi class. You give up something a fighter could do at 5th level to get something a wizard can do at 5th level... not something a wizard can do at 1st level.

Ugh, that's horribly unbalanced. AD&D multiclassing, AD&D (2nd?) dual classing, 3.x, 4e and 5e multiclassing all have giving up. You never ever should be getting abilities at the same level as a single classed character. A X level character where you can pick and choose among all of X level for two classes is inherently more powerful than where you can only pick from one class.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think they should split the difference and have all classes gain their archetypes at level two. This would help to prevent obnoxious dips without delaying people who seriously want those powers for too long, and first level would act as an apprenticeship for all those spellcasters who now get their archetypes at level one.

Yeah, especially since the default for 1st level is just 300 XP usually earning and leveled by the end of level 1.

But, it begs the question: if you can level out that quickly, why not just start with it done?

 

[DND_Reborn]

For the issue of multiclassing, one option is not allow multiclasses to ALSO get subclasses in later classes, just core features.

But as people have noted, core features are too front loaded often that when combining them with subclasses at level 1 makes MC dipping ridiculous.

Of course, I don't like the d20 model for MCing anyway. Bad form, IMO!

 

[TheSword]

They should be gained at third level…

…unless there is a good reason for them not to be…

… which low and behold is how it’s set up at the moment!
Sorcerer bloodline makes sense to pick at 1st.
Wizards school once you’re past apprentice level 1, etc etc.

 

[cbwjm]

All you need to do is shift core class abilities to a later level. Make the eldritch knight gain some spellcasting and then pick up a fighting style and second wind at a later level. When I say that I want all subclasses to start at level 1, I'm not saying I want them to also have all of the things the base class currently gives them at level 1.

 

[Minigiant]

eldritch knogjt is the closest to working since you can trade your fighting style for cantrips.
in general a str/int fighter or dex/int rogue isn't what people are going for... it is spell casting fighter or spell casting rogue.

Well the question is whether you should be allowed to be a spell casting fighter or spell casting rogue at level 1?

And if you answer is yes, the solution is not to make subclasses at level 1. It's to do the thing most dreaded

ADD NEW CLASSES!

thunderclap
lightning flash
bat squeaks
trees sway in wind

 

[DND_Reborn]

All you need to do is shift core class abilities to a later level. Make the eldritch knight gain some spellcasting and then pick up a fighting style and second wind at a later level. When I say that I want all subclasses to start at level 1, I'm not saying I want them to also have all of the things the base class currently gives them at level 1.

I dug this out of the old saved stuff folder from June 2020. It isn't hard to shift everything to level one and slide other core features up in level to compensate. This could easily be further revised so no level grants more than 2 features.

But, anyway, the purpose of the poll was to see if there was an sort of consensus, which of course there isn't. Sigh...