D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[HammerMan]

I'm sure if WotC were really saying the quiet parts loud, it would instead be something like, 'we tried taking baby steps towards fixing this problem, both in late 3e (see weaboo fahtan whatever meme) and in 4e, and people (to a lessor or greater degree, depending upon whom you ask) rejected it.'

tbh Bo9S and 4e where the best times to play martial characters in my mind... but 3e was already falling apart and 4e got a bad wrap and hit with the only split past edition retroclone out with it... and it STILL was the best selling system before 5e.

I wish 5e had more 4e in it..

 

[Horwath]

So, slow down casters (not just wizards, after all) a bit and speed up martials?

On the caster side, the fix is pretty simple (at least for a starting point), would be to slow down spell level progression and spell slots as well.

View attachment 151175

A lot can be done for martials, as there have been numerous threads on this, but no one ever really seems interested in making changes instead of just talking about it.

I would rather add 10th level spells at 19th level, and increase spell level of toptier spells of levels 5+ by 1.

 

[HammerMan]

That would be a completely different game to me and not what I want out of D&D. You do have some archetypes such as rune knight that has supernatural abilities if you want them. Personally I want some classes that are just dirt simple regular people trying to survive in a world of magic.

and tthat is the game I want... I had it for a few years and I am pushing for the next revamp to bring it back

 

[Yaarel]

So, slow down casters (not just wizards, after all) a bit and speed up martials?

On the caster side, the fix is pretty simple (at least for a starting point), would be to slow down spell level progression and spell slots as well.

A lot can be done for martials, as there have been numerous threads on this, but no one ever really seems interested in making changes instead of just talking about it.

That would require rewriting the game, to recalibrate everything, but I am ok with that delay in the spell-slot-level schedule access in principle.

I probably prefer a more symmetric progress.



While we are rethinking spell levels, I strongly want to stop referring to "spell levels" and just refer to class levels. So a 13 level Wizard can cast a 13 level spell.

In any case, most of the spells of spell slot levels of 6 thru 8 suck. There are a couple of good ones that always get picked, and the rest are nonchoices, that need to reduce in level or get a rewrite to make them more competitive alongside other spells.



I would be ok if:
• A level 1 Wizard can only cast cantrips. 2 or 3 cantrips are at-will, but the Wizard can cast other cantrips using slots.
• A level 2 Wizard can cast what is currently a slot 1 spell.
• Level 4 accesses slot 2; level 6 slot 3; level 8 slot 4; level 10 slot 5; level 12 slot 6; level 14 slot 7; level 16 slot 8; level 18 slot 9
• except Wish is a slot 10 spell at level 20

Meanwhile, the low level Wizard is tough and survivable, maybe even Athletic.

The Wizard only relies on spells and never gains weapon proficiencies (albeit one school might), and normally multiclasses for it.

 

[Mort]

Can that trained athlete do it while wearing armor, carrying a weapon and other gear while running across a broken field? I agree that fighters could use a boost in out of combat options, I just don't think looking at world record holding athletes that set those records under ideal conditions is the right yardstick.

You're really quibling about a fighter being able to add an average of 4-5 feet (higher at higher levels)to their jump distance (with a limited resource)?

Especially when a caster can triple anyone's jump distance with a 1st level spell (with a resource that's at mid levels up less limited).

 

[DND_Reborn]

I would rather add 10th level spells at 10th level, and increase spell level of toptier spells of levels 5+ by 1.

Huh?

 

[Oofta]

and tthat is the game I want... I had it for a few years and I am pushing for the next revamp to bring it back

I'm not going to get into edition wars other than to say we simply want different things. If they brought it back with the next edition I would continue playing 5E or find a different game.

 

[Horwath]

Huh?

you slowed down spell level progression for low level spells(new spell level every 3 levels), but you should have done so for higher level spells.
or add 10th level spells and rewrite some spells into one level higher(that are maybe too good for current level)

 

[Mort]

The easiest solution would be to rigorously enforce the 6-8 encounter guideline a day or rework encounters intensity/rests to make it less viable for casters to use a bunch of spells in a given encounter forcing them to stretch their resources out. That would probably require the least work, as opposed to reworking spell progression, advancement etc.

This isn't so much about balance (at least for me). It's about the cool stuff PCs can and can't do.

I've found (at least with 5e) the game is more than "balanced" enough on power level. Martials keep up with the casters by being able to take more hits and doing FAR more damage etc.

It's more about doing cool stuff outside the combat pillar where magic tends to outdistance things too much.

 

[DND_Reborn]

you slowed down spell level progression for low level spells(new spell level every 3 levels), but you should have done so for higher level spells.
or add 10th level spells and rewrite some spells into one level higher(that are maybe too good for current level)

Ok, but you said add 10th level spells at 10th level? So are you thinking like @Yaarel that a 10th level caster casts 10th level spells? Or do you want 10th level spells at level 27th or so??