D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Mort]

When people talk about making martials "better" there's scant suggestions on how to do it other than to make them into some variation of a comic book superhero with no details. I don't want my fighter to suddenly be able to shoot laser beams out of their eyes, so what else do we have?

Plenty of ways to do it without going near the superhero route.

For ex. Allow fighters with superiority dice to add them to more things.

Say the fighter wants to jump farther, he can add a superiority die. Doing this won't go near superhero levels, with the added die he might actually approach what a trained athlete can do (in the RW).

 

[Vaalingrade]

Martials, even high level ones, are often worse at real world feats than competent athletes in the real world (I'm not talking about dealing damage - martials can do that just fine).

Usain Bolt, comic book superhero.

Arnold Sch... okay, I'll give them this one.

 

[Oofta]

Plenty of ways to do it without going near the superhero route.

For ex. Allow fighters with superiority dice to add them to more things.

Say the fighter wants to jump farther, he can add a superiority die. Doing this won't go near superhero levels, with the added die he might actually approach what a trained athlete can do (in the RW).

Can that trained athlete do it while wearing armor, carrying a weapon and other gear while running across a broken field? I agree that fighters could use a boost in out of combat options, I just don't think looking at world record holding athletes that set those records under ideal conditions is the right yardstick.

 

[HammerMan]

When people talk about making martials "better" there's scant suggestions on how to do it other than to make them into some variation of a comic book superhero with no details. I don't want my fighter to suddenly be able to shoot laser beams out of their eyes, so what else do we have?

I don't care if there is a "Shoot radiant" from your eyes as an option...although not my first choice.

I DO want "I can redirect a river" "I can fire a burst of arrows 1 targeting each creature inX burst" and "I can move so well that in shadowy area I am invisible" and "I can through force of personality and tactics give buffs and regain hps" and "I can use quick words and pull of big cons" Even something as simple as by level 7 or 9 when a rogue is prof and exp in thieves tools/open lock, I want him to be able to 'fonzie' it as well or better than a knock spell even if it is magical locks. or more improtant at level X rangers can just use a herblist kit like it was a healers kit and refill it in the wild with a DC XX check (btw all are things I have tried to house rule)

I kinda want "I cut my hand and my sword burts into flames" and "I flank better" and "I can concentrate and go into a battle meditation allowing myself to move better" or I hit with power and cut through resistance.

I wouldn't mind "I teleport 20ft make an attack then teleport 10ft make an attack and teleport 5ft then make an attack" or "I transmute my skin to steel" or even "I pop claws" as long as they were options not default built in (and if you didn't know that is nightcrawler, colossus and wolverine from X men)

 

[DND_Reborn]

I don't want my fighter to suddenly be able to shoot laser beams out of their eyes, so what else do we have?

I don't either LOL! For me, I like having magic being magical and martials being mundane, but I am willing to stretch the boundaries a bit for the sake of a fantasy game.

IMO you can take things people can do IRL and just make them "better, stronger, faster" etc. The rules don't even support PCs doing things people can do IRL as it is, so there is a lot we could do there. I posted a thread for making Fighters better, but it didn't get much feedback. So, same issue as I said before, people want it but don't seem to like the stuff I propose.

Anyway, heighten physical abilities, but also awareness in nature for Rangers and Barbarians, maybe some urban stuff for your typical Rogue, and so on.

 

[HammerMan]

Tasha's already took a tiny step in that direction by allowing Battlemasters to take manuevers that add their superiority die to things like performance, persuasion, intimidation etc.

More stuff like that can go a long way.

yes and I love it. I give all fighters double subclass battlemaster +1 and those manuevers work so well.

 

[eyeheartawk]

The easiest solution would be to rigorously enforce the 6-8 encounter guideline a day or rework encounters intensity/rests to make it less viable for casters to use a bunch of spells in a given encounter forcing them to stretch their resources out. That would probably require the least work, as opposed to reworking spell progression, advancement etc.

 

[HammerMan]

There are fairly easy way to counteract this. First, antimagic can become frequent at higher level. Good luck casters...

Magic resistance also becomes more common at high level, and that is certainly a martial boost as well.

That being said, the magic resistance of 5e is a bit limited, so, although I have not needed it so far even in high level, I'm considering giving powerful adversaries real magic resistance à la 3e, with a number that needs to be beaten by a casting ability check.

Honestly, a good combination of this makes martial strong again.

that is good in theory but I want to make everyone have equal fun not shut down the casters.

 

[Oofta]

I don't care if there is a "Shoot radiant" from your eyes as an option...although not my first choice.

I DO want "I can redirect a river" "I can fire a burst of arrows 1 targeting each creature inX burst" and "I can move so well that in shadowy area I am invisible" and "I can through force of personality and tactics give buffs and regain hps" and "I can use quick words and pull of big cons" Even something as simple as by level 7 or 9 when a rogue is prof and exp in thieves tools/open lock, I want him to be able to 'fonzie' it as well or better than a knock spell even if it is magical locks. or more improtant at level X rangers can just use a herblist kit like it was a healers kit and refill it in the wild with a DC XX check (btw all are things I have tried to house rule)

I kinda want "I cut my hand and my sword burts into flames" and "I flank better" and "I can concentrate and go into a battle meditation allowing myself to move better" or I hit with power and cut through resistance.

I wouldn't mind "I teleport 20ft make an attack then teleport 10ft make an attack and teleport 5ft then make an attack" or "I transmute my skin to steel" or even "I pop claws" as long as they were options not default built in (and if you didn't know that is nightcrawler, colossus and wolverine from X men)

That would be a completely different game to me and not what I want out of D&D. You do have some archetypes such as rune knight that has supernatural abilities if you want them. Personally I want some classes that are just dirt simple regular people trying to survive in a world of magic.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

When people talk about making martials "better" there's scant suggestions on how to do it other than to make them into some variation of a comic book superhero with no details. I don't want my fighter to suddenly be able to shoot laser beams out of their eyes, so what else do we have?

They need to have ways to apply status effects (I can plausibly see fighter being the best at single target, melee reach, debuffing), force/constrain movement and otherwise interact in heroic or cinematic ways. I think battle master should just be the core fighter, and that maneuvers should scale and expand as as the fighter levels up. Like, why can't my fighter have a reaction to jump in the way of someone attacking the wizard or using their shield to provide cover from a breath weapon?

Martials can be very bad ass without having to be wuxia super heroes.