D&D 5E What Level is the Wizard vs. the Fighter?

[DND_Reborn]

If you read the DMG it tried to be. Don't make me dig up the scans... (The mechanics on the other hand were almost the same as 1e)

LOL don't worry about it. It wouldn't surprise me.

I've never been fond of them being entirely non-replenishable. I've seen boxing matches and other cases of people pulling themselves on their feet - and bandages and first aid. Which is what you're assumed to be doing in a rest IMO.

I don't mind them being somewhat replenishable, but would prefer something more like 1 hp / level / hour. Spending HD is too much IMO.

I know 1 hp / level / hour isn't much though, but if you use all your HD you can basically almost fill up, doubling your effective HP for the day.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't mind them being somewhat replenishable, but would prefer something more like 1 hp / level / hour. Spending HD is too much IMO.

1hp/level/hour is like very bad and counters the narrative of dungeon crawling

That is one thing D&D always contended with.

Fans often want mechanics that feel "natural" or were simple. However those mechanics ran counter to the concept of a dungeon crawling or adventure game.

The 5 minute workday was caused by a simplistic natural game base with insane supernatural magic spells and items on top of it. If there was no time limit, it made most sense to nuke a room, collect treasure, run away, heal outside, and come back later with your nukes recharged.

 

[DND_Reborn]

1hp/level/hour is like very bad and counters the narrative of dungeon crawling

Not really. AD&D was mostly about dungeon crawling, and back then you got 1 hp / day, plus CON after a week, fully healed in 4 weeks.

So, 1 hp / level / hour is rather generous by comparison.

Fans often want mechanics that feel "natural" or were simple. However those mechanics ran counter to the concept of a dungeon crawling or adventure game.

It doesn't hinder dungeon crawling, it makes you be more cautious. It makes the danger more real when you can't just sit around for an hour and be all better after nearly going unconscious.

 

[tetrasodium]

1hp/level/hour is like very bad and counters the narrative of dungeon crawling

That is one thing D&D always contended with.

Fans often want mechanics that feel "natural" or were simple. However those mechanics ran counter to the concept of a dungeon crawling or adventure game.

The 5 minute workday was caused by a simplistic natural game base with insane supernatural magic spells and items on top of it. If there was no time limit, it made most sense to nuke a room, collect treasure, run away, heal outside, and come back later with your nukes recharged.

no the single digit N hp/hr & N*level/hr recovery rates back in the day meant two important things

• First was that any losses were nontrivial to recover. Sure bob might have a hundred hp now, but he still only gets back N/hr
• Second & more importantly it meant that taking a "rest" even while the gm is pointing out all of the reasons why resting here is a terrible idea could trivially result in being worse off than when it started if the party is attacked. Here are the rates from 3.5 for comparison.
• 

 

[Minigiant]

Not really. AD&D was mostly about dungeon crawling, and back then you got 1 hp / day, plus CON after a week, fully healed in 4 weeks.

So, 1 hp / level / hour is rather generous by comparison.

That's because you had fewer nukes. And running away scotfree was harder.

Once the nukes went up and the escapes were plenty. Nuke then Magicky Run Away, Repeat

It doesn't hinder dungeon crawling, it makes you be more cautious. It makes the danger more real when you can't just sit around for an hour and be all better after nearly going unconscious.

No it didn't.

The most logical thing was to nuke a room with magic and weapon, using magic to escape, use magic to heal, restore magic,and come back.

That's how 50% of dungeon crawler video games, table top games, and board games work.

What keep people from doing it was rules that disrupted one or more of those steps. That's what made you cautious, Disruption.

 

[Maxperson]

That's because you had fewer nukes. And running away scotfree was harder.

Once the nukes went up and the escapes were plenty. Nuke then Magicky Run Away, Repeat


No it didn't.

The most logical thing was to nuke a room with magic and weapon, using magic to escape, use magic to heal, restore magic,and come back.

That's how 50% of dungeon crawler video games, table top games, and board games work.

What keep people from doing it was rules that disrupted one or more of those steps. That's what made you cautious, Disruption.

Eh, that worked for video games. Try it in a populated dungeon and when you come back often the inhabitants have joined up and set traps, creating a far deadlier mix than if you had stayed.

 

[Minigiant]

Eh, that worked for video games. Try it in a populated dungeon and when you come back often the inhabitants have joined up and set traps, creating a far deadlier mix than if you had stayed.

you could in 3e if your high enough level and got decent items.

That was the whole problem.
It was better if the enemy teamed up because you could kill more of them when you be nova-ed.

 

[Maxperson]

you could in 3e if your high enough level and got decent items.

That was the whole problem.
It was better if the enemy teamed up because you could kill more of them when you be nova-ed.

3 encounters worth of challenging encounters will mince you, magic items or no. You can take em individually, but together they annihilate you.

 

[Lanefan]

1hp/level/hour is like very bad and counters the narrative of dungeon crawling

How so? If hit points, like other things, are viewed as a depletable and hard-to-recharge resource then slow recovery fits in fine with dungeon-crawling. Cautious dungeon-crawling, where the primary goal is to survive and the best way of doing so is to not lose hit points.

What it doesn't fit in fine with is the idea of solving every problem by wading into combat.

The 5 minute workday was caused by a simplistic natural game base with insane supernatural magic spells and items on top of it. If there was no time limit, it made most sense to nuke a room, collect treasure, run away, heal outside, and come back later with your nukes recharged.

Exactly. And as DM, while I might find this a bit dull I can't in the least blame players for taking this approach; and as player it's just how I want to tackle most adventures provided we have the time.

 

[Minigiant]

How so? If hit points, like other things, are viewed as a depletable and hard-to-recharge resource then slow recovery fits in fine with dungeon-crawling. Cautious dungeon-crawling, where the primary goal is to survive and the best way of doing so is to not lose hit points.

What it doesn't fit in fine with is the idea of solving every problem by wading into combat

It's not hit points.

It's the "These are your total HP for the 8 encounters" vs "These are your total HP for 1 encounter".

If there are nothing forcing multiple encounters a day, a fighters 25 HP for the day becomes 25 HP per fight and everything goes out of wack.