D&D 5E Another Fighter: the "Heroic" Fighter

[DND_Reborn]

So, here is yet another attempt (or revision from prior attempts) at a "heroic" fighter class. By "heroic" I mean things that are feasible by real world standards, even if they really stretch the bounds of plausibility. While extreme potentially, they are not meant to be "super heroic", but can certainly approach it.

For example, this version would fit in a Hercules or Xena style game; not something more mundane or super heroic.

Deign Notes:

1. Fighting Styles. You begin with one and gain more at higher levels.
2. Second Wind. Unlike RAW, you gain additional uses at higher levels. Since it requires your bonus action, you can still only use it once on your turn. [SUGGESTION: instead of gaining more uses of Second Wind, scale it so you only have one use that grants a larger boost to hit points when used.]
3. Martial Maneuvers. You get a battle master maneuver at 2nd level and more later on. Your maneuver dice is shown on the table and your number of uses equals your proficiency bonus. I highly suggest for people who want to use the new maneuvers in later books to do so as it will increase the types of things you can choose for your maneuvers.
4. Action Surges. You still get more, but quicker. Using a surge still gives you one additional action on your turn, and you can use more than one on your turn if you have multiple uses. If you used all four Action Surges on your turn, you would have a total of five actions. See the note about Extra Attack below. Also, you substitute improving your jump distance or carry capacity (and lift) for an action. If you used all four Action Surges in this way, your jumps would be 5x and your lifts/carry capacity for the turn as well. So, a STR 20 fighter could long jump 100 feet (yes, this really is close to the limits for "heroic" and for some of you exceeds it, but I am okay with it) or drag/lift/push 3,000 lb. (again, well beyond real life, but "imaginable" IMO).
5. Indomitable. So, this is given much sooner, and has more uses faster. Also, you'll note not only does it include failed saving throws, but I added you can use it with ability checks using Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. [SUGGESTION: two uses of Indomitable allows you to treat your roll as if you rolled a 20. This might not be enough to succeed if the DC is sufficiently high.] / [SUGGESTION: three uses of Indomitable allow you to succeed instead of rerolling, regardless of the DC.] / [SUGGESTION: You can use your reaction and spend a use of Indomitable to make a critical hit you've suffered into a normal hit.] / [SUGGESTION: You gain resistance to any damage taken when you use this feature (from the source that caused you to use the feature, that is).]
6. Extra Attack. I added the caveat that you can only use Extra Attack once on your turn. This means if you use Action Surge for more Attack actions, each use will only give you one attack, not a number of attacks provided by the Extra Attack feature. Well, technically it could allow you to do this once, if your regular action wasn't used to Attack. At most, with Extra Attack (3) giving you four attacks, and using four uses of Action Surge for one additional attack each, you have the same RAW 8 attacks on your turn you could otherwise have.
7. Exploration and Social Pillars. This build does not include any special features for these pillars. I did this for two reasons: a) fighters can contribute to these pillars already via background, race, and skill choices, as well as using one or both of their bonus ASIs at 6th and 14th level to take feats to enhance the pillars further, and b) excelling at these pillars is not for forte of fighters, but of other classes such as rogues, bards, etc. It would be certainly possible to add features, but I would replace the ASIs at 6th and 14th levels to do so, personally. Since I don't want to force players into features designed for pillars they might not care about for their fighter, I am allowing the other options (race, background, skills, feats) to do that for the players who want improved performance in the exploration and social pillars. [SUGGESTION: add subclasses with features that emphasize the exploration and social pillars, so the core class doesn't need to have them inherently.]

Over all, I think this brings fighters closer to the power of casters, without going overboard. Again, I know for some of you it isn't enough, and for others it might be too much, but there has to be a compromise/ middle ground someplace--and I am starting here.

Any feedback or thoughts is appreciated, as always. Particularly I know the wording for using Action Surge to enhance jumps/lifts/etc. needs some work.

Draft of the Tactician martial archetype:

Draft of the Frontiersman martial archetype:

Draft of the Warlord (???) martial archetype:

 

[Mort]

Indomitable should be like it was early in the playtest - use means an auto success. A truly meaty ability that actually means something.

If you're going to limit action surges to 1 attack then they should also be applicable to reactions. Having the fighter be able to have more than one reaction per turn is truly meaningful (and since it requires a significant resource cost it's not the least bit overpowered) and means a fighter with a feat like sentinel is actually a threat as opposed to an annoyance.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Indomitable should be like it was early in the playtest - use means an auto success. A truly meaty ability that actually means something.

I was leaning in this direction, if it was only once per short or long rest, and you had to use it before you rolled, not after. Otherwise it is basically Legendary Resistance.

Would one auto succeed be worth up to four uses as it currently is?

If you're going to limit action surges to 1 attack then they should also be applicable to reactions. Having the fighter be able to have more than one reaction per turn is truly meaningful (and since it requires a significant resource cost it's not the least bit overpowered) and means a fighter with a feat like sentinel is actually a threat as opposed to an annoyance.

Hmm... that isn't a bad idea. I agree it certainly wouldn't be OP due to such a limited resource.

If I did it, I think a good balance would be you could use Action Surge to gain additional reactions, but not to the same triggering event.

Thoughts?

 

[Mort]

I was leaning in this direction, if it was only once per short or long rest, and you had to use it before you rolled, not after. Otherwise it is basically Legendary Resistance.

Would one auto succeed be worth up to four uses as it currently is?

I think effectively giving the fighter legendary resistance is a GREAT idea. A fighter that lives in a world of magic would learn how to deal with magic. The fighter, especially a decent level fighter, SHOULD make the caster work for it.

Plus, I've seen indomitable be completely useless too many times because the caster has a high save DC and the fighter doesn't have a bonus or proficiency in the save (so even with indomitable only has a 5-10% chance).

Hmm... that isn't a bad idea. I agree it certainly wouldn't be OP due to such a limited resource.

If I did it, I think a good balance would be you could use Action Surge to gain additional reactions, but not to the same triggering event.

Thoughts?

Yes, one reaction per event makes sense.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think effectively giving the fighter legendary resistance is a GREAT idea. A fighter that lives in a world of magic would learn how to deal with magic. The fighter, especially a decent level fighter, SHOULD make the caster work for it.

Plus, I've seen indomitable be completely useless too many times because the caster has a high save DC and the fighter doesn't have a bonus or proficiency in the save (so even with indomitable only has a 5-10% chance).

I agree and it is why I was thinking of making it auto-succeed instead of reroll.

Maybe instead of multiple uses at 4, 9, 14, and 19, make it re-roll at 4th and the auto-succeed at 9th, an Indomitable "improvement" as it were?

 

[Mort]

I agree and it is why I was thinking of making it auto-succeed instead of reroll.

Maybe instead of multiple uses at 4, 9, 14, and 19, make it re-roll at 4th and the auto-succeed at 9th, an Indomitable "improvement" as it were?

Sure, or:

have reroll be 1 use but auto success be 2 uses. Somewhat the same but more versatile and really gives the player more options/choices as levels increase (actually it's a bit evil because the choice will likely be a struggle).

 

[Vaalingrade]

Okay, so step to is subclasses that add Exploration and Social perks like a Great Leader and Combat Analyst which focus on manipulating ally and enemy emotions and exploiting the environment and enemy weaknesses respectively.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Sure, or:

have reroll be 1 use but auto success be 2 uses. Somewhat the same but more versatile and really gives the player more options/choices as levels increase (actually it's a bit evil because the choice will likely be a struggle).

One of my group members also suggested that this weekend on a prior version LOL.

Well, I suppose that is a great compromise.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Okay, so step to is subclasses that add Exploration and Social perks like a Great Leader and Combat Analyst which focus on manipulating ally and enemy emotions and exploiting the environment and enemy weaknesses respectively.

Sure, I agree with others a good Warlord subclass and others could help make fighters who do have more focus for exploration and social pillars, I just don't think that needs to be "core" to the class.

I know it the other thread people sometimes equate such things to "mind control magic", but I don't see it that way if you flavor it correctly. There are leaders IRL and conmen, etc. who can convince people to do just about anything (for good or bad).

So... which subclass would you like to explore?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Sure, or:

have reroll be 1 use but auto success be 2 uses. Somewhat the same but more versatile and really gives the player more options/choices as levels increase (actually it's a bit evil because the choice will likely be a struggle).

Ok, I've added the suggestion to the OP, but with the idea two uses gives you a 20. If a 20 is not enough to succeed, well then you have a serious weakness IMO. It might not be what you wanted, but I am not a fan of auto-succeed since that really is Legendary Resistance and not something a PC should have as I see it.

Anyone who wants to use this homebrew can certainly make it an auto-succeed if they want to.