D&D 5E Unfair Scrying

[Helldritch]

In reality the BBEG will never scry the players at first. He will send minions to find the PCs. One of these minions will have a way to send a message (via spell, device or even a flamed arrow in the sky would do with other minions watching for it.)

When the minions have warned their boss, he will then scry the minions and their fight against the PCs as to learn their tactics and their relative strength. After a few times, said boss will prepare ambushes along the PCs' most probable travel path.

Through a few encounters, the BBEG will learn PCs' tactics and will adjust his spells/forces accordingly. The will be to use minions and everything in his power to neutralize at keast one if not two PCs. Divide and conquer is still a viable strategy.

And good players will do the same! Very often, players will have the basic layout of the BBEG's lair/base/keep before entering it. They will even have a basic idea of the forces in presences! Knowledge is half the battle. It was true during Sun Tzu, it still is.

 

[Lyxen]

Another thing that I remember doing in 1e is creating countering spells. I know the framework for this does not exist in 5e, but especially for teleportation (but also resurrection), we had a lot of specialized spells. We had teleport without error before it was officially output, but we also had "follow teleport", "Unfollowable Teleport", "Misguiding Teleport" (a bit like shadow door, took you somewhere else when you tried to follow), etc. And even an Anti-(anti-magic-shell)-shell.

 

[Azuresun]

Isn't that why there are defenses against Scrying? Like I still can understand how it can suck, but I thought there are defenses against it.

There are--Nondetection, and that other spell that makes an area scrying proof.

I remember a game of Mage: The Ascension where the bad guy had time magic and so could perfectly predict all our plans because he was looking into the future. Perfectly rules-legal, negative fun.

 

[Maxperson]

My question is simple - how did the BBEG know where you were just from observing you for 10 minutes a day? Because scrying is just a drone with a camera pointed at the target from up to 10 feet away. Depending on ambient noise and how loudly you're having a discussion, they may not even be able to hear you. Unless you happen to be walking past some landmark or a signpost, scrying doesn't tell you much.

The camera visual range is not limited to 10 feet. Yes it has to stay within 10 feet of the target, but you can see terrain for potentially miles in all directions since you can see and hear is if you were there, and if you know the lay of the land you can determine with some accuracy where the party is.

 

[Lyxen]

I remember a game of Mage: The Ascension where the bad guy had time magic and so could perfectly predict all our plans because he was looking into the future. Perfectly rules-legal, negative fun.

It can be done in a fun way, see Sanderson's Cosmere, the characters holding the shard can see somewhat in the future, but it does not make them perfect at it.

 

[Oofta]

The camera visual range is not limited to 10 feet. Yes it has to stay within 10 feet of the target, but you can see terrain for potentially miles in all directions since you can see and hear is if you were there, and if you know the lay of the land you can determine with some accuracy where the party is.

In some cases it could give a general idea of location. But the focus of the spell needs to remain on the target. If the target is in a room, walking through the woods or so on how much info you can get? If you happen to be passing by the Matterhorn when the scrying is done the caster may or may not recognize it if they can get a good view. If the party is below the tree line? How much is the caster going to see, they can't see the mountain for the trees.

It's always going to be a judgement call. Depends on where they are and how distinct the terrain is. In the U.S. you can drive for hours and nothing really changes that much. View someone hiking the Appalachian trail and you'd be hard pressed to tell if the hiker is in Georgia or West Virginia most of the year.

 

[Maxperson]

In some cases it could give a general idea of location. But the focus of the spell needs to remain on the target. If the target is in a room, walking through the woods or so on how much info you can get? If you happen to be passing by the Matterhorn when the scrying is done the caster may or may not recognize it if they can get a good view. If the party is below the tree line? How much is the caster going to see, they can't see the mountain for the trees.

It depends on how well the BBEG knows the area. There may be a distinctive copse of trees, and trees that are very individual looking. Maybe there's only one hill in the forest and the party is going up a slope. It may not work every time, but if the BBEG knows the terrain, it will work fairly often.,

It's always going to be a judgement call. Depends on where they are and how distinct the terrain is. In the U.S. you can drive for hours and nothing really changes that much. View someone hiking the Appalachian trail and you'd be hard pressed to tell if the hiker is in Georgia or West Virginia most of the year.

And if the group is out in the open, moving towards your BBEG evil lair at a fairly constant rate, you can figure out where they are based on how long ago you last knew their position. Hell, you don't even need scrying at that point.

 

[LordEntrails]

That works better for older editions. In an edition like 5e where wizards can wear and cast in full plate and walk around with swords, and fighters can do well with light weapons and leather armor, it's not so effective. Looks can be and are deceiving.

Yes, but how many wizards actually do? And how many fighters don't wear armor? Sure, what people look like might be misleading, but not that often.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

In 3.5 it usually were the players who did skry->buff->teleport->surprise->kill before the enemy can do anything.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, but how many wizards actually do? And how many fighters don't wear armor? Sure, what people look like might be misleading, but not that often.

I didn't say no armor, but dex fighters wear light armor and look a lot like rogues. For that matter, some wizards wear light armor and look like fighters and rogues. The BBEG can make some assumptions based on what he thinks the likely party make-up is, but he's not going to know for sure and could easily get it wrong.