5e combat system too simple / boring?

[Mistwell]

Due to recent internet discussions and the transitive property, we can now confirm that D&D is either 90% or 50% simple/boring, depending on who you ask.

It's why I thought to bring this back up. Though I always worry when I necro a thread that people will get into rousing debates with posters who are no longer posting here.

 

[Jer]

So, 6 year later, has this issue gotten better? Different? The same? Worse?

Huh. Interesting thread. I missed it the first time around (I wasn't playing 5e at the time at all regularly, so that might be why).

5e is what it is. It's not a game that I'd throw people who are interested in tactical battles at - there are other games that do that better. Even from a narrative perspective the combat part of the game relies a lot on the quickness of players imaginations to describe what's going on without giving much in the way of prompts for what's happening. Tired or distracted players leads to boring combats ime, while in 3e or 4e IME combat would be a time when folks would wake up because a different part of their brain was engaging.

Interestingly IMO 5e is a version of D&D where I think combat is more boring if you use miniatures than if you don't. I know I'm in the minority on that one because many in my own gaming groups disagree, but I think when you have minis out on the table with 5e it just kind of lays bare that the attacks are basically all fairly similar, and you end up somewhat constrained in describing moves to make them sound cooler by the minis on the table than when it's all in your head or on a whiteboard imo.

 

[el-remmen]

80.9% of polled ENWorlders say that combat is either "generally fun" or just "fun."

Only 19.1% of polled ENWorlders say that combat is either "generally not fun" or just "not fun."

<source>

 

[dave2008]

I've found a few things make a large difference.

FYI, you are responding to a person who was last seen on these forums almost 6 years ago. So I'm thinking they are not checking out your reply!

 

[TwoSix]

So, 6 year later, has this issue gotten better? Different? The same? Worse?

After 7.5 years of regular play in multiple groups, the general tactics do start to get pretty familiar. The best combats, I've found, are heavily spellcaster versus spellcaster with challenging terrain (multi-level, requiring climbing or flying, with lots of hazards). Open terrain, or dungeon corridors with martial vs martial hit point attrition as the primary factor are generally the worst.

 

[Lyxen]

Interestingly IMO 5e is a version of D&D where I think combat is more boring if you use miniatures than if you don't.

I couldn't know whether it's a minority or not, but just be aware that I actually agree with you 100%.

I know I'm in the minority on that one because many in my own gaming groups disagree, but I think when you have minis out on the table with 5e it just kind of lays bare that the attacks are basically all fairly similar, and you end up somewhat constrained in describing moves to make them sound cooler by the minis on the table than when it's all in your head or on a whiteboard imo.

For me, it's more that the grid system is extremely minimal and strapped on as a vague option, and it just reminds people who liked 4e how crisp and precise that system was for playing with grids and miniatures.

I would however distinguish between miniatures and a grid. The grid is what I'm mentioning above, using miniatures, well, we often did that even when the game was mostly Theater of the Mind, because figurines are cool and can be used to give relative positions on a large battlefield, or during a pursuit, etc. (things that 4e did really badly anyway).

 

[clearstream]

FYI, you are responding to a person who was last seen on these forums almost 6 years ago. So I'm thinking they are not checking out your reply!

Yup, I noticed after writing that it was a helluva necro! I blame @Mistwell!

 

[tetrasodium]

5e doesn't have detailed rules telling you exactly what you can do and when exactly when you're allowed to do it. This allows for far more complex combat than 3.5/3.75 ever allowed.

Imagine that you're on a raised part of a ship deck playing a pirates campaign. There is a rope loosely "tied" to a pole. You want to do what they do in pirate movies. Grab on to the rope (use an object), swing (use movement), attack, keep swinging (use rest of movement), then let go of rope (no action required). In 3.5/3.75, you'd be told you can't do that because the rules force a specific way of playing. At my table, I'd give you an advantage on the roll if the target is currently in combat with someone else.

In 5e, you're limited by your imagination. Some people lack imagination and would prefer to be told what they are allowed to do, thus they complain that 5e is too "simplistic".

You not knowing the rule that covers that does not mean that there are no rules for it. The relevant section is dm's best friend on dmg page 30 & possibly bonus types from dmg page21. Both of which you can read here. Depending on the style of game the gm can choose to do lots of things for or against that dramatic move you describe, for example they could give +2 circumstance bonus to hit because the extra momentum makes it easier to punch through the target's armor or they could point out that this is not that type of campaign and assign -2 circumstance penalty because you are less stable swinging from a rope. Maybe they assign a +/-2 to your ac while you are subject to AoOs from the front liners trying to react to your leap from the rope towards your boss.

All of that ask your gm is no different between editions with only the result of that gm call being a difference. What differs is that with the 3.x one bob can use his gust cantrip & a 10 pound sack of flour to blind the foes with a circumstance/environmental +/-2 that helps you on your dramatic swing as appropriate to his efforts & alice can crank the wheel on the ship hard to port so the ship lists in a way that throws the badguys off kilter for another +/-2 in your favor while in 5e they can do it sure but advantage is advantage your done so they shouldn't waste their action with dramatic stuff that does nothing & should just continue attacking like they did last round.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Fun for my group, but we've revamped some things rather significantly... to the point others probably might not consider it D&D anymore, certainly not 5E.

 

[Jer]

FYI, you are responding to a person who was last seen on these forums almost 6 years ago. So I'm thinking they are not checking out your reply!

If you start fighting with an account on a necro thread that hasn't posted any activity in 6 years is that like fighting zombies?