D&D 5E Revisited Setting News: Its not the 2023 Classic setting, but rather for 2024

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
Just one quick thing (As I've long put my opinion out there that Greyhawk doesn't offer enough on its own as a setting in this day and again hence our multiple, multiple threads trying to pin down what Greyhawk's identity is):

Those have been generic-fied as Steel Dragons since.... At least 2E. Yeah I know they did a lot of "There's this SUSPICIOUS SIMILAR dragon in Greyhawk called the Greyhawk Dragon" but, they're the same. Same powers. Same gimmick
Maybe it's a chance to bring back the Ferrous Dragons then and other off-brand Metallics, Chromatics, and Gems like Mithral, Brown, and Obsidian Dragons.

I recognise that Purple Dragons have been reimagined as Deep Dragons but given how vastly different their looks are I think you could revive them. I think 5e just wanted to simplify the number of Dragons to just 5 per classification (and reduce the amount of terrain clashing - Mercury Dragons would be competing for space with Emerald and Red Dragons, for example, and that might be just too many different volcanic dragons for their taste). But I loved the two 4e Draconomicons, and I could totally see Steel Dragons returning in a Setting-specific book.
 

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the Jester

Legend
Has he actually left? I thought he just faded into the WotC background because every time he tweeted led to reminders of how he defended a bad person and thus was hurting the brand more than helping.
As far as I can tell...

This isn't actually supported by the evidence. I ask for the origin of this every time this comes up, and it always goes back to one tweet making an assertion with nothing to back it up.
 



Parmandur

Book-Friend
I really don't know what your talking about. If you or your players don't see the horror of using souls to power a car, I think that is on you. Maybe it is in the adventure, IDK, I just know what I have read about it.
IIRC, as presented in the Adventure, PCs could arguably be doing the trapped souls a favor by freeing their soul energy to leave the Hells...but only by causing them excruciating pain. But then the book also has ways for the PC to find out what awful people are stuck in the coins.

It's all pretty messed up, but can be taken in multiple directions.
 

Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
Maybe it's a chance to bring back the Ferrous Dragons then and other off-brand Metallics, Chromatics, and Gems like Mithral, Brown, and Obsidian Dragons.
Bringing back other dragons is why I'm all for a Council of Wyrms coming back (Plus given the near universal comdemnation on them trying to get rid of the other dragon types in that recent book, pretty clear people down for more dragons)

Though 4E had the right idea for Mercury dragons. Don't play up the enviroment they live in, play up the shapeshifter T-1000 nature because no other dragon can, y'know, melt down into a puddle to get into places a dragon really shouldn't fit into
 

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
Thank you. I hadn't seen that review.

I really like this one:


Right. It's an absolutely wonderful movie. A gem of children's horror. It's like they took the 84 items listed in the Fear Survey Schedule for Children and used it as a checklist for things to include. It's utterly brilliant.

If only.

There's only so much you can sanitize a setting before it loses its flavor. I don't think WotC is capable of toning down the setting without making it a cartoonish parody of itself.

I wish the players I run D&D games for were like that. They mostly just cower and hide from any danger that's not comfortably beneath their level. Weirdly, the Cthulhu players I have are way braver with their characters and choices.

Some simply refuse to learn them.

Again, I don't think they're capable of it. They're more interested in the lowest common denominator and making a profit than anything approaching moral courage and life lessons.

Message novels are notoriously terrible sellers. Kids don't want to be preached at. Again, it's a mismatch of expectations between what the adults think about kids and what kids actually deal with or want. It's adults trying to teach kids things the adults want them to know, but the kids generally either don't care or learned the same lesson a few years earlier than the adult was ready to talk about it.

Again, see the moral panic of the Satanic Panic and the horror comics fiasco of the '50s. The kids wanted to play D&D, it's the parents who freaked out. The kids wanted to read horror comics, it's the parents who freaked out.

They can't use a broadsword as a scalpel. As evidence of that I'll point to Ravenloft.

We disagree. It was a joke.
That's one of my favourite Youtube reviews of the movie. Genuinely great channel, too.

For me, the film has been a part of my life since my parents taped it off the air when I was a kid and I couldn't stop watching the VHS over and over again - because no matter how many horrors Dorothy went through, the ending was worth it. I had to get to the eucatastrophe and resolution to make it through the bad things.

I think WotC can create such a setting guide as I spoke to above. And again, I don;'t think it should be a message novel: I said that Return to Oz worked precisely because it DIDN'T foist morals onto the characters and speak down to the child audience. It let us identify with the protagonists in the face of adversity, and I think that's one of the core values that D&D is known to engender among young persons. I don't think it has to be a giant treatise on why slavery is evil. It just needs to show the relentless, unforgiving evil of Athas and cast the characters as heroes who will not be able to heal the world and solve all its problems, but nevertheless strive against it because they're the good guys, gorramit! And that's an INCREDIBLY powerful message that is engendered by the nature of the hobby and is reinforced by the details of the setting. Defiling Magic causes problems. Being evil is not a good idea in Athas, because it creates some really uncomfortable results. But being good doesn't save you either. This sets up the fundamental conflict of Dark Sun, and one that is quintessentially D&D, but in a setting that reinforces it. They merely have to not prop up evil player options and "evil mode" narratives and simply focus the thrust of the Dark Sun campaign on the few good people struggling against overwhelming evil. There are no gods of good backing you up on this one. There are no higher powers than the Sorcerer Kings and the Dragon of Tyr. There is no safe zone. The wilderness isn't safe and the cities are morally bankrupt at best, outright hostile at worst. You are utterly alone. Or you would be, but you have your companions. You are one of a team, and this team may not avert climate change, but you might be able to overthrow an oligarchic oil baron or two… err, you see why I said we need this sort of narrative in our lives right now? Sorry, I slipped a bit into my slant.

I actually thought they were pretty close with 4e's take on Dark Sun, though the artwork was demeaning as ever. I think they'll do better in 5e's take.
 


Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
As far as I can tell...

This isn't actually supported by the evidence. I ask for the origin of this every time this comes up, and it always goes back to one tweet making an assertion with nothing to back it up.
Fair enough. I'm not the person to ask. I was sort of asking myself in a way. I know what tweet he made and how bad it looked, and I know he vanished from the public eye shortly after tweeting a company-line statement that was at complete odds from the earlier tweet. But I also think I've only seen the original tweet second hand (I think he may have deleted it and people saved copies?) so I can't be sure that's true. My point was more that I thought he had stayed and not left, or I saw no confirmation that he was given the boot, just that he's not in the public eye anymore.
 


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