D&D 5E Why use initiative?

[Nebulous]

A player in one of my games has multiple bonuses to initiative from class features and feats. I guess he’d get double or triple advantage?

or maybe just -1 on each dice for each ability that grants him a boost?

I would go with the -1 boost. Simpler.

 

[Nebulous]

I don't remember participating in this thread, but one advantage that comes immediately to my mind is that it would be an easy way to randomize combat advantages and opportunities provided by terrain (or just providence), which otherwise tends to be ignored in D&D and RPG in general, simply by adding text or icon to the card.

Oh, that reminds me, I had a few special cards included, like "Power Attack" that could mean whatever I wanted, so if that came up (for either PC or NPC) the next card pulled gained that power attack (such as extra damage usually). There were many ways to modify and tweak the card system. I really liked it. It was like rerolling initiative every round, but no mechanical math to follow. It was very fluid and fast.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I suppose that entirely depends on whether you want those feats to mean he is getting as much as a 50% or even 75% bonus to his success.

The -1 for each doesn't sound too bad but then again three feats would instantly guarantee a 1 every time that player rolls a D4.

If you invest that much resources into initiative, it may as well pay off. He usually goes first anyways.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I would go with the -1 boost. Simpler.

I guess another option is Alertness allows you to go with a dice smaller. So, if you're rolling a d12 for a spell, you can use a d10 instead and, instead of a d6 for movement, it's a d4

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

If you invest that much resources into initiative, it may as well pay off. He usually goes first anyways.

Yeah. Plus it's not that crazy if he automatically gets a 1 for something because that's only one category, his stacking -1s wouldn't count for as much when casting a spell or taking multiple actions. Plus I'm guessing he had to give up on improving his ability scores anyways, just to get the feats?

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

I guess another option is Alertness allows you to go with a dice smaller. So, if you're rolling a d12 for a spell, you can use a d10 instead and, instead of a d6 for movement, it's a d4

Ooooh now that I like! A player will feel really cool if they get to use different dice categories.

 

[Helldritch]

Any time I see such a post, I wonder why people hated weapon speed so much. Then I remember why and give a sight of relief that it is over and done.

Range weapon can be very slow. Aiming a bow when not in hand to hand combat isn't that stressful. But in hand to hand, your chances to actually aim and hit make you slower than a sword. So in melee range should be a d12...

But for casting... Shouldn't a cantrip be way faster than a two handed sword? If we see cantrip to something akin to the Harry Potter fights, a cantrip should be very fast, earning a d4. And shouldn't we modify the die for tier spells? 1-3 d6, 4-5 = d8, 6-7 = d10 and 8-9 = d12?

And for melee? Shouldn't small weapons allow 1d4? Medium weapons d6 and Two handed weapons d8?

5ed went for this way to do initiative for a reason, it is to make all classes on equal footing and to simplify it. If you really want to add more immersive stuff, going back to the weapon speed factor and casting time might help you better. 2nd edition had a simplified version. It was working ok. Maybe going back to this method would be a better middle ground? Already we see people adding more and more complexity. At some point, I do not think that going back to weapon speed factor should be a thing. But 2nd edition style initiative should work out just fine.

 

[Nebulous]

5ed went for this way to do initiative for a reason, it is to make all classes on equal footing and to simplify it. If you really want to add more immersive stuff, going back to the weapon speed factor and casting time might help you better. 2nd edition had a simplified version. It was working ok. Maybe going back to this method would be a better middle ground? Already we see people adding more and more complexity. At some point, I do not think that going back to weapon speed factor should be a thing. But 2nd edition style initiative should work out just fine.

What did 2e use? I can't remember. And I love the idea of speed factor but it bogs things down. If it were in a CRPG for the computer to crush the math instantly, then I'd be all for it.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

D&D isn't a simulationist system imho, and crunchifying initiative just make combat take longer and/or make it more tedious for the more roleplaying focused players at my table, with marginal tactical opportunity gain. So we are happy with standard initiative.

Now, more details systems that take into account speed factors and whatnot can be fun. But not in D&D.

 

[DND_Reborn]

What did 2e use? I can't remember.

And I love the idea of speed factor but it bogs things down.

I never found it really bogged down the speed at all, personally, but of course everyone is different.