D&D General For those that find Alignment useful, what does "Lawful" mean to you

[nevin]

Humans genuinely have both Good impulses and Evil impulses.

What makes things tricky is, the Evil impulses come from a sense of justice, as if the other being harmed deserves to be harmed. It is often in hindsight that people realize that they themselves were being the villains, because, at the time, it felt "right" to inflict injury.

It takes effort to discern the most ethical behavior. Sometimes one must defend oneself or someone else.

Genuinely, humans have a Good side. I feel the Good side wins out more often than not.

or evil impulses can justify themselves with a sense of Justice. I dont think desiring justice is evil. Now killing somone in cold blood to get justice would be. But Humans are the masters of rationalization. As an exercise come up with a list of actions and justify them as different alignments. It will stretch your brain. It'll also show you how easy it is to rationalize almost any action from almost any alignment. Now will your D&D god agree..........that's the million dollar question.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

 

[nevin]

I view Good, Evil, and mix as 100% the historical record of an individuals own actions.

Albeit the intention of the action is about as important as the action itself.

is it? If i commit cold blooded murder because I believe it will serve the greater good does that mitigate the action? I think that's an opinion and a lot of people end up with Long jail sentences because they believe that but other people don't. And if intention is as important as the action how do you judge people? There is absolutely no way to be 100 percent certain that what you know about their intention is correct. That's why justice is supposed to be blind. Perspective skews everything.

 

[Yaarel]

or evil impulses can justify themselves with a sense of Justice. I dont think desiring justice is evil. Now killing somone in cold blood to get justice would be. But Humans are the masters of rationalization. As an exercise come up with a list of actions and justify them as different alignments. It will stretch your brain. It'll also show you how easy it is to rationalize almost any action from almost any alignment. Now will your D&D god agree..........that's the million dollar question.

Yeah, the rationalizations of "justice" make actual Good tricky.

A helpful way to navigate is to question whether the demand for justice is benefiting ones own identity only, or if it is honestly to help any and every identity.

This helps discern compassion too, because sometimes compassion can become Evil if it permits Evil-doing people to continue harming innocents.

Generally, balance compassion and justice against each other, and if there is uncertainty about which would do more Good for a particular situation, lean on the side of compassion.

 

[HammerMan]

I completely disagree with that. By any measure you can come up with things have steadily gotten better over history. percentage of people starving, amount of people dieing in wars, accidents, by disease. Modern man has a way of trying to turn everything black and white and turn every negative thing they see into a communal failure.

But no way to prove it just an opinion.

I can see your point a wise man did once say the arc of history is long but tends toward justice... I just have more of a glass half empty kind of guy

 

[HammerMan]

View attachment 152752

a lot of words for "Grow up and open your eyes kid..." but Obiwan missed that boat by 10ish years at that point

 

[RuinousPowers]

yes and no.

Robin Hood can easy be made being CG (even CN or NG depending on how you want to lean with the character) but as a Chaotic Good Ranger/Rogue he can still have a code "I will only steal from the rich" and/or "I will only shoot to maim not kill"(see batman paradox) and/or :I believe in the true king...not the pretender"

You can also make Robin Hood a LG Paladin of the Crown... "I serve the crown, and the people under it... but this UNLAWFUL regime has infringed on it and I shall in my small part work against it"

the strength and the weakness of the alignment system is that you can take an idea and make it multi alignments. (this is also why we don't use alignment that much)

Ok, but the premise I responded to said the Chaotic person would frequently disregard their own personal code. So you end up with characters who "only shoot to maim" routinely shooting to kill. How do they reconcile the fact that they frequently break their own code? It's not like they would even feel guilty about it, because breaking their code is part of their ethical nature (being Chaotic). If the code I claim to have is "I never lie to my friends", but I do in fact lie to them on a regular basis, is my character a hypocrite? Liar? Deluded?

 

[RuinousPowers]

yeah I remember DMs changing alignment due to actions and that applying XP penalties for a time (I don't remember exact amount of time was it until a level?)

In 1e characters lost a level for switching alignments, I don't remember if there was an exp penalty for a time afterwards or not.

 

[HammerMan]

is it? If i commit cold blooded murder because I believe it will serve the greater good does that mitigate the action?

Dexter is obviously orderly and over all he follows his code (the code of harry he even talks about it) and that code is a way to take his evil impulses and use them for good...
So Dexter is LG
wait Dexter is NG
wait Dexter is NE
Wait Dexter is LE

I can play all 4 of those alignment (and maybe more) and still be recognized as being based on that show.

 

[Yaarel]

is it? If i commit cold blooded murder because I believe it will serve the greater good does that mitigate the action? I think that's an opinion and a lot of people end up with Long jail sentences because they believe that but other people don't. And if intention is as important as the action how do you judge people? There is absolutely no way to be 100 percent certain that what you know about their intention is correct. That's why justice is supposed to be blind. Perspective skews everything.

The life of a person is a book of actions. One can leaf thru the pages of a murderer and see the murder. Whether the book is mostly Good pages or Evil pages is what it is.

Intentions matter, but they cannot erase the action.

Actions mstter, but they cannot erase the intention.