D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Micah Sweet]

Le

On reflection, a big change from when I started to now is the nature of the "fail state" of the game.

If you played RAW, earlier editions of the game were much more punishing. Looking at mechanics like Save or Die effects and Level Drain, you could very readily mechanically lose the game. The goal is to have fun, and fun is derived by overcoming the encounters successfully. It is implied that TPKs are "non-fun" because they are the opposite of the win state. Now, many longtime players slap on the nostalgia goggles and have fond memories about the grim, 'ardkore elements of older editions. That is their right certainly, but to be blunt, time has just softened how monotonous and repetitive some of these experiences actually were. See also classic JRPGs and MMORPGS for similar dynamics.

Newer design in DnD and really most RPGs identify "having fun" as the win-state. So the rules are more geared to making the game enjoyable to the largest audience possible. That means the game is easier. Less obtuse, less poorly designed math, less mechanical hurdles based on whims rather than actual, thoughtful game design.

Less mechanical hurdles at all, I'd say.

 

[beancounter]

D&D has shifted from a combat focus to a roll playing/story focus as evidenced by a recently released module "The Wild beyond the witchlight" where combat is discouraged, and they specifically say that you need to talk your way through encounters.

It has also gone from hard gritty and dangerous/deadly to a big emphasis on your backstory and where it's very hard to die.

 

[tetrasodium]

On reflection, a big change from when I started to now is the nature of the "fail state" of the game.

If you played RAW, earlier editions of the game were much more punishing. Looking at mechanics like Save or Die effects and Level Drain, you could very readily mechanically lose the game. The goal is to have fun, and fun is derived by overcoming the encounters successfully. It is implied that TPKs are "non-fun" because they are the opposite of the win state. Now, many longtime players slap on the nostalgia goggles and have fond memories about the grim, 'ardkore elements of older editions. That is their right certainly, but to be blunt, time has just softened how monotonous and repetitive some of these experiences actually were. See also classic JRPGs and MMORPGS for similar dynamics.

Newer design in DnD and really most RPGs identify "having fun" as the win-state. So the rules are more geared to making the game enjoyable to the largest audience possible. That means the game is easier. Less obtuse, less poorly designed math, less mechanical hurdles based on whims rather than actual, thoughtful game design.

Lanefan already touched on the misapplied win state=fun, I think that to a degree though your post is kind of missing the mark on both ends of the scale & declaring the current end result a thing without its own problems with the past version a thing with only problems. Take level drain, the problem was not simply because it was a death spiral if the players didn't have spell or macguffin to protect them from the level draining thing, lots of tables can & did use those sort of spell/macguffins but the problem that level drain always brought was "uhh.. I need 20 minutes to go unlevel my character". In 3.x there was ability drain that killed the "I need 20 minutes" problem & was minor enough to be a usable tool for the GM, even if it often ended with "so you get back to townb & Y days pass without issue". Now in 5e though ability drain creatures might damage maxhp until the end of the next long rest so "nahhh I don't think we need to go back to town, we can tiny hut in this closet or whatever" is often the result. Not only do weaker level draining turned ability damaging turned max hp damaging monsters not carry a scary stick that needs planning & consideration to overcome by just existing in or near a fight, The scary stick no longer carries any narratively meaningful effects the gm can choose to keep in place or handwave after meaningful efforts are taken

For all the talk of SoD effects they were exceedingly rare both as a result of planning to nullify or stack the odds as well as the effects often having a low chance each time they are triggered. "Yea you rolled bad & we should have prepared" is a very different post-PC death conversation between players than 5e's "doubletap yea, straight up shang chi from mortal kombat saying finish him when you went down" is 100% on the GM choosing to execute the player. I've killed more 5e PCs than 3.x ones & almost always the 5e player/group was shocked compared to the 3.x player/group had a list of "ick we should have x y z".

 

[Paul Farquhar]

D&D has shifted from a combat focus

Has it, or is it just that the players have grown up a bit?

For me, D&D (and other role playing games like Traveller, CoC, Golden Heroes etc) have always had a strong storytelling focus, since I started playing in 1982.

I've seen more player character deaths in 5e than in any other edition.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Has it, or is it just that the players have grown up a bit?

For me, D&D (and other role playing games like Traveller, CoC, Golden Heroes etc) have always had a strong storytelling focus, since I started playing in 1982.

I've seen more player character deaths in 5e than in any other edition.

Sounds like you're implying that a focus on combat is a sign of immaturity.

 

[HammerMan]

For all the talk of SoD effects they were exceedingly rare both as a result of planning to nullify or stack the odds as well as the effects often having a low chance each time they are triggered.

in 2e I was mostly in local circles, my first big CON was the year 3.0 came out (although I did play a 2e game that year) so maybe I was just out of the loop but SoD were rare because by the time they came online you had better odds of making your save then not...

in fact I remember post 5th or 6th level making more saves then failing.

3e changed that when the save scaled with the caster. in 2e a 30th level archmage might give you a 2 penalty but maybe not... and if your save is 6+ you are ignoring them more often then not... and Magic Resistance was just a % chance of saying 'nope' to casters

 

[HammerMan]

Has it, or is it just that the players have grown up a bit?

For me, D&D (and other role playing games like Traveller, CoC, Golden Heroes etc) have always had a strong storytelling focus, since I started playing in 1982.

I've seen more player character deaths in 5e than in any other edition.

3e 4e and 5e are combat engines with add ons for other things... but those add ons are getting better.

 

[JEB]

D&D has shifted from a combat focus to a roll playing/story focus as evidenced by a recently released module "The Wild beyond the witchlight" where combat is discouraged, and they specifically say that you need to talk your way through encounters.

Eh, let's wait and see if Witchlight's non-combat emphasis is a new norm or just them trying something novel. All the other 5E adventures have had plenty of combat, and player abilities still center on combat.

 

[TerraDave]

It’s not actual Italian Renaissance historical period, no, but to me it feels very Ren-faire. Somewhere you expect to see Arthurian knights, Age of Sail pirates, vikings, samurai, and steampunk characters all intermingling, and a good half of them are probably also elves, or fairies, or anthropomorphic animals.

But is that a change in tone, if that has been the tone for 40 years?

 

[HammerMan]

Eh, let's wait and see if Witchlight's non-combat emphasis is a new norm or just them trying something novel. All the other 5E adventures have had plenty of combat, and player abilities still center on combat.

even being a glass half empty guy I am living in hope