D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Paul Farquhar]

You can't just pick up a sword and be a fighter in 5e.

Really, yes you can. If you are a PC. If you are not a PC you can never be a fighter, no matter how hard you train.

Same way you can't be a veteran of 12 wars and master duelist at level 1.

A first level character can be a veteran soldier of any number wars. It's a background.

Soldier​

War has been your life for as long as you care to remember. You trained as a youth, studied the use of weapons and armor, learned basic survival techniques, including how to stay alive on the battlefield. You might have been part of a standing national army or a mercenary company, or perhaps a member of a local militia who rose to prominence during a recent war.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Really?
I thought the MM was full of monsters and NPC progression.
For me from commoner to soldier to veteran is a progression.
A CR: 0, 1/8 and 3 respectively.
How our farmboy gets there is irrelevant. It does follow a progression.
And nope, they're not forced to be forever what they started to be.
Our veteran could become a Gladiator in an arena. He'd just change stats. I see it like levels.
Same with any humanoid monsters in the MM.
Hobgoblin ===> Hobgoblin captain ====> Hobgoblin warlord. repeat ad nauseam with all humanoids in the MM.

Pelicans have two legs, horses have four legs and ants have six legs. By that logic pelicans ===> horses ===> ants.

 

[overgeeked]

And buried in there is the seed of why I will never play a fighter in older editions...the idea that I can potentially be playing the same character for a year or longer and in that time what I can do to engage with the game is exactly the same as what I could do on the first day.

There is a lot of negative attitude towards "buttons" in this (and many) discussions, but the "buttons" are what makes this a role-playing GAME and not just a role-playing ACTIVITY.

In an RPG you’re not limited to just what’s on your character sheet. You can do more than what’s listed there. Player creativity and imagination are always an option. The sheet is the start of the character, not the end.

 

[Helldritch]

Pelicans have two legs, horses have four legs and ants have six legs. By that logic pelicans ===> horses ===> ants.

Sarcasm and ridiculous examples will not change that you can use the same person: "John the farm boy" as a commoner. Raise to him to soldier after he joins the militia and get further training. After a few years, John the farm boy is a veteran of many fights/wars/skirmishes that is now much more powerful than he was a young boy.

The same goes with Grak, a hobgoblin soldier whom, through ruthless fights and promotion became the captain of his troopers. After a few successful campaigns and the assimilation of other warbands, Grak becomes a feared warlord.

Your example is just bad faith, ridicule and irrelevant. It is not because there are no experience points associated with the evolution of something that it means that no evolution is possible. Do "Mile stones" ring a bell?

 

[overgeeked]

Sarcasm and ridiculous examples will not change that you can use the same person: "John the farm boy" as a commoner. Raise to him to soldier after he joins the militia and get further training. After a few years, John the farm boy is a veteran of many fights/wars/skirmishes that is now much more powerful than he was a young boy.

The same goes with Grak, a hobgoblin soldier whom, through ruthless fights and promotion became the captain of his troopers. After a few successful campaigns and the assimilation of other warbands, Grak becomes a feared warlord.

Your example is just bad faith, ridicule and irrelevant. It is not because there are no experience points associated with the evolution of something that it means that no evolution is possible. Do "Mile stones" ring a bell?

There’s also dragons. Unless one thinks they’re all born at a given age category and never advance, then there’s explicitly a progression.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And buried in there is the seed of why I will never play a fighter in older editions...the idea that I can potentially be playing the same character for a year or longer and in that time what I can do to engage with the game is exactly the same as what I could do on the first day.

There is a lot of negative attitude towards "buttons" in this (and many) discussions, but the "buttons" are what makes this a role-playing GAME and not just a role-playing ACTIVITY.

I don't think so. What makes it a game is that your actions have an effect on how successful you are and the eventual outcome (whether or not you achieve your goals). Buttons are just fancy choices you can make.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And there are many who don't. It's just something happens and "bam" you are a superhero. You can have a highly trained 1st level character, but there is no requirement that they be highly trained.

This is a profoundly shallow understanding of superheroes.

Most superheroes got through both a personal mental and literal growth arc to actually become a 'superhero'. Sure, many get powers from a bolt from the blue, but what actually makes them heroes is trial and error, prior training, and personal growth.

Spider-Man didn't get bit by the spider and suddenly know how to websling and save people at the end of a string. He had to learn to use his power responsibly, techniques and is constantly improving.

Kyle Raynor isn't a good Green Lantern because he got the ring, but because his background as an artist synergizes with the ring's limitation being based on creativity.

Superman isn't Superman because he gains power from the yellow sun, but because he was raised from a baby with compassion and learned not to destroy this world of cardboard with his incredible strength that could become a curse or tyranny.

Look, I get that it makes arguing on the internet is a lot easier if you can find something similar to the thing you don't like to demonize. That's why this board has exploded into frantic, angry oinking about videogames recently and why every 'RPG nightmare' video finds a way to mention the bad player of the week likes anime. But it doesn't actually help the case when the whipping bot doesn't actually do the bad thing you're trying to slap people over.

 

[Vaalingrade]

There is no such progression in the rules.

They're not in the PC rules because most people don't want to go through it for the 'honor' of eventually getting to play the game they come for.

Like, Link has to grow up from a child every time he reincarnates, but no one is going to stand for a Legend of Zelda where you have to master the concept of object permeance.

 

[Helldritch]

There’s also dragons. Unless one thinks they’re all born at a given age category and never advance, then there’s explicitly a progression.

And what about the devils? Their progression line is quite explained and hasn't changed since 1ed.
Same goes with demons. From spontaneous advancement through sheer elevation in ranks through their own merits (or the will of a demon prince/lord...). Advancement is D&D is all over the place.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Also, pelicans are the inferior animal. That's just facts.