D&D 5E The Fate of the Smol

[DEFCON 1]

I don't need rules to be perfectly realistic, nor I would expect it from D&D. But I expect some base level of verisimilitude and representation. To me the purpose of the RPG rules is to represent the fictional reality and if they don't do that, I have no use for them.

Then we go right back around to the original question, which was why anyone would need halflings to have some lower set of STR ability scores compared to goliaths for "verisimilitude"... when even assigning a halfling a -1 STR compared to a goliath's +5 you are still ending up with dice rolls from 0-19 for the halfling and 6-25 for the goliath... with the halfling easily defeating the goliath on strengths check any number of times.

Once again... needing certain modifier bonuses or penalties for races for "verisimilitude" when it doesn't actually accomplish what anyone says it does... means there's no reason for the game to include them if the designers think more players would be happier making whatever types of characters they want without them.

Yes, (general) you might want them. But if they aren't actually accomplishing anything of real substance, there's no necessity to have them.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Then we go right back around to the original question, which was why anyone would need halflings to have some lower set of STR ability scores compared to goliaths for "verisimilitude"... when even assigning a halfling a -1 STR compared to a goliath's +5 you are still ending up with dice rolls from 0-19 for the halfling and 6-25 for the goliath... with the halfling easily defeating the goliath on strengths check any number of times.

Once again... needing certain modifier bonuses or penalties for races for "verisimilitude" when it doesn't actually accomplish what anyone says it does... means there's no reason for the game to include them if the designers think more players would be happier making whatever types of characters they want without them.

Yes, (general) you might want them. But if they aren't actually accomplishing anything of real substance, there's no necessity to have them.

It accomplishes the same thing than any ability modifier. A wizard with int 18 has only two points better modifier than a rogue with int 14, but it still means that that they have a better chance to succeed in int tasks which represents them being smarter.

And if you don't think the increased probability matters, then why have such complicated maths for checks anyway? Just flip a coin for every task, regardless of what it is and who is attempting it; heads succeeds, tails fails.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Once again... needing certain modifier bonuses or penalties for races for "verisimilitude" when it doesn't actually accomplish what anyone says it does... means there's no reason for the game to include them if the designers think more players would be happier making whatever types of characters they want without them.

Yes, (general) you might want them. But if they aren't actually accomplishing anything of real substance, there's no necessity to have them.

Yes it does. The average goliath is stronger than the average halfling, and will win most strength based contests. That's sufficient substance to me. It's as much as a magic weapon bonus, or tool bonus to a skill. How much do you need to be considered a significant change to the die roll? What you mention is, what, a 30% shift? If +6 isn't enough, what is?

To be clear, I'm not trying to be antagonistic- I'm rather surprised of your example and following assertion.

 

[MGibster]

So you're okay with halflings overpowering goliaths on the occasional strength endeavor, so long as on the character sheet it is written down that the halfling has lower strength?

Yup. It's just the nature of d20.

 

[James Gasik]

Probably, Goliaths should get an extra push for their Powerful Build in matters of brute strength. This is really where we have to step into "rulings not rules" part of the equation. A small creature can be insanely strong- you see this in nature. But size, mass, and reach, matter a lot depending on the situation.

But let's not focus entirely on Strength- we're also playing a game where you can now have a 20 Dexterity Goliath, just as agile and nimble as any Halfling.

 

[DEFCON 1]

And if you don't think the increased probability matters, then why have such complicated maths for checks anyway? Just flip a coin for every task, regardless of what it is and who is attempting it; heads succeeds, tails fails.

You have this weird habit of just going to the furthest extreme with every single time you give a counter example. Is everything just "all or nothing" with you?

 

[DEFCON 1]

Yup. It's just the nature of d20.

Well, that makes little to no sense in my opinion, so it's no wonder WotC doesn't seem to feel the need to go in that direction either.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Yes it does. The average goliath is stronger than the average halfling, and will win most strength based contests. That's sufficient substance to me. It's as much as a magic weapon bonus, or tool bonus to a skill. How much do you need to be considered a significant change to the die roll? What you mention is, what, a 30% shift? If +6 isn't enough, what is?

To be clear, I'm not trying to be antagonistic- I'm rather surprised of your example and following assertion.

So the reason why people want the ability modifiers to the races is because they can't fathom how a 3' halfling could compare strength-wise with a 7' goliath. It doesn't "make sense" and breaks their believability. But for you, so long as goliaths are only 30% stronger than halflings, that's all you need to see? Am I understanding that correctly?

Well... I'm going to go ahead and say that that doesn't make any logical sense either. If we are talking "believability" here... goliaths would not be just 30% stronger that halflings-- they are more than twice the height and what... probably 10 times the weight? If we were worried about any sort of "realistic" interpretation here... 30% stronger would not even come close.

So what does that mean? It means quite frankly that any attempt at realism is not going to hit the mark. And thus there's no reason whatsoever to pay the barest of lip service to it by giving something like goliaths a +2 to STR and halflings like a -2. That's doing absolutely nothing for representing realism, so why are we wasting time? At this point we move right over to the other side like WotC is doing, which is letting players play these races any which way they want-- including having a halfling as stronger if not stronger than a goliath, "averages" be damned.

 

[Baron Opal II]

So the reason why people want the ability modifiers to the races is because they can't fathom how a 3' halfling could compare strength-wise with a 7' goliath. It doesn't "make sense" and breaks their believability. But for you, so long as goliaths are only 30% stronger than halflings, that's all you need to see? Am I understanding that correctly?

No, you miss the mark and the point.

Oddly enough, my loquacity is at an ebb. So, enjoy the game as you see fit, not that I would have it otherwise. We all need to chart our own path as to what makes the game a memorable experience for those at our table.

Good day.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Oddly enough, my loquacity is at an ebb.

This is my favorite thing anyone has ever said.