D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Cruentus]

Possibly another difference, talking about magic items, is that in early DnD much of the character’s abilities would be tied to magic items. Adnd presumed about 10+ magic items per character. See paladin magic item restrictions to see what a restricted magic item list looks like.

So by fairly low levels my character and your character would be quite different. Not because of class necessarily but because we had different items.

Newer DnD with its much larger number of classes (including sub classes) takes that uniqueness away from items and wraps it into class.

It really does speak to this notion of players getting to choose how their character changes over time. In early DnD it was much more random. The PC picks up some item and that becomes a signature element of that character. Every paladin wanted a holy avenger. Every MU wants a staff of the magi. That sort of thing.

In 5e, it’s class that defines the character to a larger degree. And the fact that it’s far less likely to have multiple characters of the same class in a campaign.

Agree fully. Though in our campaigns, the magic items came and went, it was only the Staff of the Magi, the Vorpal Sword, Holy Avenger, for ex, that were 'signature elements'. Most of the time that +2 sword was dumped overboard for that +3 in a heartbeat. And heck, who didn't have a whole closet full of magic weapons, rings, armor and such. Unless of course, you sold it off.

Yup, it does seem that class is the defining feature now, and also provides a lot of the "magic" right into the class itself. Magic items feel either unnecessary, or maybe only relevant as a mcguffin or something to move the story along. And I'm still not sure how I feel about that. (That being said, I played in the Tiamat and Storm King's Thunder recently, and the DM handed out magic items willy nilly, and it was a total trainwreck, particularly in the hands of some characters.).
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[BookTenTiger]

One thing I've noticed is that back in the day everyone used to roll their dice differently.

I can't really describe it, but I know it was a better way of rolling dice than how people do it nowadays.

 

[Remathilis]

One thing I've noticed is that back in the day everyone used to roll their dice differently.

I can't really describe it, but I know it was a better way of rolling dice than how people do it nowadays.

I've grown fond of dice rolling boxes myself.

 

[tetrasodium]

I don't disagree with the posts about how magic items are deemphasized with more weight shifted to player class choice, but I think that is a very thick set of rose colored glasses being used to frame it. Those once very important magic items were a huge part of the GM's toolbox & with that drawer so deeply looted to the barren state of modern d&d the DM is very much powerless over their own game.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I don't disagree with the posts about how magic items are deemphasized with more weight shifted to player class choice, but I think that is a very thick set of rose colored glasses being used to frame it. Those once very important magic items were a huge part of the GM's toolbox & with that drawer so deeply looted to the barren state of modern d&d the DM is very much powerless over their own game.

This is an odd claim. 5e is effectively "GM Says" as the primary resolution mechanic. How can the GM be powerless in a game that explicitly says "ask your GM how this works" for just about everything?

I mean, don't get me wrong, you can absolutely run 5e in a neotrad approach, but this requires the GM to be complicit. Effectively, though, this is what AL play looks like, but I don't see anything in the way the game presents itself that necessitates or even comes close to this -- it seems AL specific due to the additional GM constraints on AL play.

 

[Helldritch]

This is an odd claim. 5e is effectively "GM Says" as the primary resolution mechanic. How can the GM be powerless in a game that explicitly says "ask your GM how this works" for just about everything?

I mean, don't get me wrong, you can absolutely run 5e in a neotrad approach, but this requires the GM to be complicit. Effectively, though, this is what AL play looks like, but I don't see anything in the way the game presents itself that necessitates or even comes close to this -- it seems AL specific due to the additional GM constraints on AL play.

Simple, before 5ed. If a game master wanted to adjust the power level of a character, he would "arrange" for the character to find THE item that the player needed to have a power spike for his character. Be it a better sword, armor, wand or whatever. From a +1 sword to a +2 sword wasn't such a big deal back then. It was easy to "control" the problems associated with it. Most of the power of a character came from the magic items it had. Two notable exceptions were the paladin and the monk. These classes were gated with high requirement.

Now, most of a character's power comes from... its class and subclasses features. So if a player makes a few mistakes, since magic items have been upgraded so much, it is even harder for a game master to "adjust" the power level other than either sending a magic items (which now have a bigger impact, thanks to BA) or simply reducing the ECL... which might bring things to a cakewalk if the DM is not careful.

Even a single magical sword can become troublesome when the scenario depends on the players having difficulties in hurting the monsters. Many classes and subclasses powers are bypassing immunities altogether. Never was the number of magic using character so numerous.

 

[Cruentus]

This is an odd claim. 5e is effectively "GM Says" as the primary resolution mechanic. How can the GM be powerless in a game that explicitly says "ask your GM how this works" for just about everything?

I think I get what @tetrasodium is saying. Basically, the DM/GM would be able to hand out and sprinkle those additional weapons, powers, and abilities across their game as suited the DM/Game. Thereby allowing the DM to sculpt the game.

5e has taken that "ability" from the DM, for the most part, and plopped it right down in the players laps. And, if you read a lot of what gets posted on this and similar boards about "player agency", then no, the DM really isn't viewed by many (or a vocal minority), as the "primary resolution mechanic" because it, by definition, interferes with player agency. (I'm sure my english teacher would flunk me for that sentence, good thing I graduated decades ago )

That being said, in our group, which has been meeting and playing together for about 40 years or so, we still ascribe to the "GM says" school of DnD RPG, and aside from the usual "rules lawyering" (I'm the primary culprit, but am really working on it!), we let the DM decide what happens, or what can and can't be used, what items or abilities are in the game or not, etc. We've even gone so far as to start a Basic DnD campaign, and an Ad&d 2e campaign. They've been eye-opening, to say the least.

Edit: AND ninja'd by @Helldritch

 

[Helldritch]

Edit: AND ninja'd by @Helldritch

But you did it better than me.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't disagree with the posts about how magic items are deemphasized with more weight shifted to player class choice, but I think that is a very thick set of rose colored glasses being used to frame it. Those once very important magic items were a huge part of the GM's toolbox & with that drawer so deeply looted to the barren state of modern d&d the DM is very much powerless over their own game.

I'm firmly in the old-school camp, but it's not accurate to say the DM is powerless over their own game. The DM always has had, and likely always will have, infinite dragons to throw at the party. While I hate the phrase and the nonsense stories it represents, it's still true. The DM can put whatever they need or want in front of the PCs. The DM isn't limited to the CR rating of monsters, nor to the number of monsters in a fight, nor the number of fights 5E is balanced around. Reskinning a CR5 ogre to be an orc still works, same as it always has. Though, admittedly, it's become rather tedious to keep up with the treadmill of power the PCs are on. You have to throw a more than deadly CR5 encounter at a 1st level party just to challenge them, even without power-gaming, munchkins, or optimization nonsense.

 

[overgeeked]

That being said, in our group, which has been meeting and playing together for about 40 years or so, we still ascribe to the "GM says" school of DnD RPG, and aside from the usual "rules lawyering" (I'm the primary culprit, but am really working on it!), we let the DM decide what happens, or what can and can't be used, what items or abilities are in the game or not, etc. We've even gone so far as to start a Basic DnD campaign, and an Ad&d 2e campaign. They've been eye-opening, to say the least.

There's a lot of really great stuff that's been left by the wayside over the decades.