M.A.R. Barker, author of Tekumel, also author of Neo-Nazi book?


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MGibster

Legend
I agree about the parallels to H. P. Lovecraft, to a point. Lovecraft was openly, viciously racist throughout most of his life. And freely expressed his racism in his fiction, poetry, letters, speech, etc. MAR Barker wrote a neo-Nazi tract under a pseudonym to protect himself from the obvious repercussions. A lot of Lovecraft’s fans despise his politics. I get the impression there’s going to be a lot of talk about separating the art from the artist in the near future.
I think a lot of us are having some difficulty reconciling the problematic aspects of those from the past with the works they produced that we continue to enjoy today. Not me. I'm fairly comfortable knowing many people from the past, including my ancestors, were bastards by today's standards. As a fan of Lovecraft's work, I'm on the side of those who argue in favor of examining Barker's body of work. As @Dannyalcatraz wrote, "his legacy- including his personal flaws- is certainly fair game for critique, regardless of how long he has been dead."

For those who are fans of Tekumel, I imagine this revelation is rather jarring. I know I was rather disappointed to learn about some of the attitudes and things said by Gary Gygax that I only learned about in recent years. I was neither disappointed nor surprised about anything I learned about Lovecraft because, well, yeah, you could see some of his beliefs right there in the writing.
 

MGibster

Legend
You can't divorce Gygax's sexist comments and implementations of his sexism in the game from his legacy. It is a part of his legacy. Defending his legacy is defending his sexism, because his sexism is a part of his legacy. You can defend, support, and praise his creations (D&D) while acknowledging that he wasn't a great person. But supporting him and his legacy is supporting his sexism.
Like it or not, Gygax is one of the individuals who laid the foundation for the world's most popular table top RPG. Everyone who plays D&D in 2022 is honoring Gygax's legacy and he's recognized in the credits for 5th edition.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Like it or not, Gygax is one of the individuals who laid the foundation for the world's most popular table top RPG. Everyone who plays D&D in 2022 is honoring Gygax's legacy and he's recognized in the credits for 5th edition.
That's ridiculous. That's like saying "everyone that eats a chocolate chip cookie or drives a car is honoring the person that invented them".

A terrible, awful, scumbag of a person can invent something amazing, and you can use/consume the things that the person invented without "honoring the person and/or their legacy". Note that I'm not calling Gygax any of those things, I'm just giving an example. I don't have a very favorable opinion of the guy, but I also don't despise his guts.

Using/enjoying something that an awful person created doesn't inherently "honor" them or their legacy. If Hitler had invented the telephone, it wouldn't be honoring him to use one.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
The Tekumel Foundation released a statement on their Facebook page.


Looks like Barker wrote Serpent's Walk. No doubts anymore. And several folks familiar with the work have given synopsizes, plus links to finding the novel free online. The novel is, without a doubt, a pro-Nazi work. Ick.

Why did Barker write the novel? Occam's Razor would suggest because he is a Nazi sympathizer. However, the novel seems an outlier for Barker's work . . . there doesn't seem to be other examples of pro-Nazi writings from Barker. Ultimately though, I don't care WHY Barker wrote Serpents Walk . . . he wrote and published it, that's enough for me.

I don't have a desire to dig into Barker's life and work for more information, I don't need to label him as evil, awful, racist, or anything really. But I am disappointed and saddened, and have lost all desire and curiosity to explore Tekumel and Barker's work.

This news does suck for fans of Barker and Tekumel, I feel sorry for the volunteers who run the Tekumel Foundation and other fans who are discovering one of their favorite authors wrote a racist, pro-Nazi novel. Sigh.
 


MGibster

Legend
That's ridiculous. That's like saying "everyone that eats a chocolate chip cookie or drives a car is honoring the person that invented them".
It's no more ridiculous than claiming that honoring Gygax's legacy makes one a misogynist.

A terrible, awful, scumbag of a person can invent something amazing, and you can use/consume the things that the person invented without "honoring the person and/or their legacy". Note that I'm not calling Gygax any of those things, I'm just giving an example. I don't have a very favorable opinion of the guy, but I also don't despise his guts.
Is there maybe some room for nuance here? Can we recognize both the positive aspects of a person's legacy and honor them for that while simultaneously decrying the negative aspects? Or is this simply a binary choice where we must say no?
Or maybe I'm just a little hung up on honoring. What do you mean by that? If I argue that Lovecraft was good at crafting certain types of stories does that count as honoring him? If he's referenced as an influence in someone's work is that honoring him?
 

Hussar

Legend
It's no more ridiculous than claiming that honoring Gygax's legacy makes one a misogynist.


Is there maybe some room for nuance here? Can we recognize both the positive aspects of a person's legacy and honor them for that while simultaneously decrying the negative aspects? Or is this simply a binary choice where we must say no?
Or maybe I'm just a little hung up on honoring. What do you mean by that? If I argue that Lovecraft was good at crafting certain types of stories does that count as honoring him? If he's referenced as an influence in someone's work is that honoring him?
I'd say using a bust of him for an award would be honoring him. Which was done up until just a few years ago, despite the fact that everyone knew he was a racist bigot.

See, there's a point that's getting forgotten here. A lot of these people really WERE getting a free pass on their histories simply because people liked what they created. Lovecraft was and is given a pretty high place in the genre for example. Heck, we actually use his name as a bloody adjective - THAT'S how revered he is in the genre. Same with Gygax really. Gygaxian is certainly a word that is used to describe a particular writing style.

Now, imagine that you know that the writing of 1e D&D was pretty misogynistic. And you know that Gygax wrote it. Now, you publish a work, something you are very proud of. Maybe you're a woman publishing in D&D. And someone describes your work as Gygaxian because you like big words and neologisms. How happy are you?

All this stuff that's coming to light now wasn't a secret. It wasn't hidden. Most of it was pretty well known and has been known for quite some time. But, it was ignored because of lots of reasons. Well, it's now time to pay the tab.
 

S'mon

Legend
Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with this.

HP Lovecraft, MAR (Phil) Barker, Gary Gygax . . . all complicated people, in the same sense that we are all complicated people. Having aspects of your personality and beliefs be problematic doesn't make you automatically a "horrible person", nor does it make folks who admire you "horrible people".

HP Lovecraft was hella racist. He was also mentally ill. He was a miserable man leading a miserable life. You can be a fan of Lovecraft's work, and even admire the man, while still acknowledging and rejecting his racism. I respect and admire Lovecraft as an author, I feel sorry for him as a person, and his embrace of racist ideas saddens me. I doubt I would have enjoyed his company or friendship if we lived at the same time and place.

Gary Gygax was "grandpa-racist" and "grandpa-sexist" . . . he held the kinds of racist and sexist views common amongst white dudes of his time. I doubt Gygax considered himself racist or sexist, and his views were shaped by his upbringing and experiences. Doesn't excuse them, of course. Gygax, IMO, wasn't even that great of a game designer, he just happened to capture lightning-in-a-bottle with Dave Arneson. I don't have a great deal of admiration for Gygax as an artist or designer, although I do respect and am grateful for his contribution to my favorite hobby. Gygax was not a horrible person . . . but also not worthy of hero worship either, IMO. So many better game designers in our hobby, both as designers and as people.

MAR Barker, Phil, was an odd academic who created a detailed world that appeals to a very small fanbase. Even before we learned of his involvement with racism, I wasn't much of a fan of his work as an author and world-builder. Without defending his actions, we still don't know a lot of the details of exactly HOW racist he was, but we know enough to be saddened and uncomfortable with his work. Being on the editorial board of a problematic academic journal isn't a good look, but isn't proof Barker was a Nazi-sympathizer. His "secret" novel isn't necessarily either, I'd have to read it or read a synopsis/review from a trusted source to judge . . . but it's not worth the effort to find out. Barker may have been no more or less racist than other white academic dudes of his time, but harbored odd ideas of how to engage or deal with Nazism. His novel, regardless of his reasons for writing it, is highly problematic. I wasn't impressed with him before, I'm less so now, but I'm also not willing to judge him as a secret Nazi-sympathizer quite yet. Barker might have been a horrible person, but I don't know enough to judge him yet, and I also don't care enough to dig deeper. His impact on society is limited. I actually was recently considering picking up his Tekumel novels out of curiosity . . . but my interest has soured, after this recent news about the man.

My mixed views on Lovecraft, Gygax, and Barker doesn't make me a horrible person, an apologist for horrible people, a sexist, racist, or a Nazi apologist. If any of these gentlemen were still alive today, I wouldn't be engaging with them, I likely wouldn't be purchasing their works, I wouldn't be attending conventions with them as major guests. But I also don't feel the need to put them in the neat little boxes of "horrible person".

I disagree with your assessment of Barker, from what we know now, afaict he seems to have been seriously engaged with/supportive of Neo-Nazism, making him vastly more racist than most people then or now. Based on this, I would lean strongly towards him being a 'horrible person' (& I'd say the same of game designers on the Left equally supportive of eg Maoism). But the more important point "My mixed views on Lovecraft, Gygax, and Barker doesn't make me a horrible person" I agree with 100%.
 
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MGibster

Legend
Now, imagine that you know that the writing of 1e D&D was pretty misogynistic. And you know that Gygax wrote it. Now, you publish a work, something you are very proud of. Maybe you're a woman publishing in D&D. And someone describes your work as Gygaxian because you like big words and neologisms. How happy are you?
When I refer to a dungeon as Gygaxian it's not a compliment but I get your point. And I was fine with them getting rid of Lovecraft's image on a bust for an award. But I'm not so fine with the idea of removing his name from everything as some people desire.

I'll ask again. Is there any nuance here? Can we recognize someone for their contributions to our hobby while simultaneously acknowledging the bad? Or is the best course of action to remove them from any lists of contributors or influences? Like I said, Gygax is still listed in 5th edition D&D. We're still honoring the guy for his contributions.
 

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