M.A.R. Barker, author of Tekumel, also author of Neo-Nazi book?

[Dannyalcatraz]

On the idea that the novel was a joke or a satire. If you are poking fun at neo-Nazis, you have to go where they are, and the obvious choice has to be literary fiction.

And that novel was published by a white supremacist organization. This isn’t Random House or Penguin we’re talking about. You’d have to actively seek them out, because they’re NOT going to be high profile enough to be included in a tickler file of mainstream publishers. They’re not going to be included on a list of self-publishing services.

Going that far as a joke is highly unlikely.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You lack imagination.

Mod Note:

You are making this personal. Bad idea.

 

[pemerton]

I have a copy of Empire of the Petal Throne - the 1987 Different Worlds edition. I've read most of it, but never played it. The gameplay system seems to be very much of its mid-70s vintage. The setting seems interesting, but with the gameplay not likely to bring out its most interesting aspects.

There is nothing in the setting or the system that I've noticed that suggests it's a work of neo-Nazim or anti-Semitism, but I'd be interested to hear what others think they've found by way of a closer reading than I've engaged in.

That it's author turns out to have been a neo-Nazi is a surprise (in the sense that I at least didn't predict or foresee it) but perhaps not a total or inexplicable one. I can't see post #2 in this thread, but the reply to it suggests that I may not be alone. To me Tekumel seems to have at least an element of enthusiasm for reaction, and also a type of reification of cultural, linguistic and ethnic distinctions.

EDIT: I don't think that this revelation means that anyone who finds Tekumel interesting and engaging would have to change their mind.

 

[Campbell]

I find the idea that social judgements or decisions to purchase or engage with a work of fiction requires the same standard as condemning someone to a lengthy prison sentence to be beyond the pale. If we applied that standard consistently we would never be able to decide who we wanted to be friends with, game with or date.

We all make social judgements based on a preponderance of the evidence all the time. If I think someone is a jerk I am unlikely to invite them to a dinner party. If I am shown evidence later on to show they were just having a bad day when we met I might socialize with them later.

I think are putting too much weight on the decision to support or not support a given author. That's a personal decision we all make for ourselves. I don't feel people should be compelled to act in ways they are not comfortable acting.

I am unlikely to financially support MAR Baker in the future. If presented with countervailing evidence I reserve the right to change my mind. That's how social and economic judgements work.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As someone who's been familiar with Temumel for two decades now this is what I suspect was the biggest influence on MAR Barker when he did these things. He was a convert to Islam, and took on board antisemetism from that route rather than via US-based neo-Nazi groups.

Mod Note:

Here’s the deal: at least one other poster has already pointed out, M.A.R. Barker’s father was a member of the Silver Legion of America. Here’s a note about the SLoA:

Legion leader Pelley called for a "Christian Commonwealth" in America that would combine the principles of nationalism, and theocracy, while excluding Jews and non-whites.

It is a FAR smaller leap to think his father (a member of a US-based neo-Nazi group) taught him his bigotry than relying on stereotypes impugning Islam in general. Occam’s Razor and all that.

But you went there, sooooo…

 

[pemerton]

I find the idea that social judgements or decisions to purchase or engage with a work of fiction requires the same standard as condemning someone to a lengthy prison sentence to be beyond the pale. If we applied that standard consistently we would never be able to decide who we wanted to be friends with, game with or date.

We all make social judgements based on a preponderance of the evidence all the time.

Agreed. As a general rule, we're not under any sort of moral obligation to befriend a particular person, or to engage with a particular creator's work. Even less so to buy something that someone is selling.

That's not to deny that it's not generally a good thing to be nice to people. But there are hundreds or thousands of RPG creators whose work I (and anyone else posting in this thread) will never purchase or engage with, for all sorts of reasons from the inadvertent and trivial to the serious and considered. It doesn't seem to do anyone any harm to add MAR Barker to that list, for those who are now inclined to do so.

I think are putting too much weight on the decision to support or not support a given author. That's a personal decision we all make for ourselves. I don't feel people should be compelled to act in ways they are not comfortable acting.

Doubly so for an author who is dead.

Is the legacy of Tekumel tainted by this revelation? I think it probably is. Is the work itself changed because of it? Not necessarily - if the work wasn't a work of hatred beforehand, I don't think its character has to change because we learn new things about its author.

 

[Random Task]

I would just like to point out that M.A.R Barker was 15 or 16 at the end of World War II. The Nuremberg trials and information coming out after the war were all in his lived experience. Others in this thread have maintained that he was a genius level academic linguist. So, this person chose to publish a neo-Nazi novel with a known neo-Nazi publisher and was on the board of a Holocaust denying journal. That is quite extraordinary and does not seem in the least to be a mere foible of his personality. I am having a hard time thinking of another creator that I am familiar with that has done something as shocking. People like Lovecraft, Dickens and Wagner had lots of personal animus against others, but I am not aware that they were organized about it. Maybe D.W Griffith is close, but the racist work, Birth of a Nation, is what he was known for whereas M.A.R Barker was hiding this stuff.

 

[jasper]

DId he get paid? If so good. I know some well know fantasy authors wrote soft porn in late 60s and 70s.

 

[Umbran]

DId he get paid? If so good. I know some well know fantasy authors wrote soft porn in late 60s and 70s.

If you are trying to say that, "If you get paid, what you write is excusable," or something similar... that's going to be a bit of a hard sell. If you discard ethics for convenience, then they weren't really ethics to begin with.

 

[MGibster]

DId he get paid? If so good. I know some well know fantasy authors wrote soft porn in late 60s and 70s.

I'm okay with people writing soft core material. I'm not so keen on people writing Holocaust denial or Nazi apologies.