M.A.R. Barker, author of Tekumel, also author of Neo-Nazi book?

[Parmandur]

From the Wikipedia page:

"Feist acknowledges that the Tekumel setting from M. A. R. Barker's Empire of the Petal Throne was the source for much of Kelewan. The original D&D campaign which he based his books on had an invasion of the Midkemia world by Tekumel. As a result, much of the background of Kelewan - the Tsurani Empire, the lack of metals and horses, the Cho'ja, the pantheons of 10 major and 10 minor gods - comes from Tekumel. Feist claims to have been unaware of this origin when he wrote Magician."

The Riftwar Cycle - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Riftwar, by Raymond Feist? Or the Krondor games?

OK, heard of Riftwar by Feist…but only just that. That it exists and he wrote it. No clue as to content, including key names, like that of the setting’s world. Krondor means nothing to me. Big zero.

 

[Parmandur]

OK, heard of Riftwar by Feist…but only just that. No clue as to content, including key names, like that of the setting’s world. Krondor means nothing to me. Big zero.

It was a novelization of his college game groups RPG campaign, which was OD&D extensively household, and the Greyhawkish world was straight up invaded by dimensional portals to the Empire of the Petal Throne...which was the Riftwar. Feist alleges that he did know that, and came to some sort if arrangement over the IP he took from Baker (even TSR could sue for the generic D&D stuff, though).

About 30 books in the past 40 years, with millions of copies sold: a bit more of a cultural penetratiob than Barker's own work.

 

[MGibster]

OK, heard of Riftwar by Feist…but only just that. That it exists and he wrote it. No clue as to content, including key names, like that of the setting’s world. Krondor means nothing to me. Big zero.

I'm only familiar with it because of the PC RPG Betrayal at Krondor that came out almost thirty years ago. I remember almost nothing about it except you could only have three people in your party at one time. Oh, and there's a scene where you arrive at an inn only to find everyone has been poisoned.

 

[MGibster]

The disturbing thing I’m seeing now is folks looking for the novel and tekumel info with a suspicious level of newfound enthusiasm.

I wonder if it's akin to slowing down at a car wreck on the highway to see what they can see.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm only familiar with it because of the PC RPG Betrayal at Krondor that came out almost thirty years ago. I remember almost nothing about it except you could only have three people in your party at one time. Oh, and there's a scene where you arrive at an inn only to find everyone has been poisoned.

The books are pretty mediocre, though historically a bit ahead of the curve in the genre towards Bildungsroman-meets-D&D, predating Dragonlance and such.

 

[Parmandur]

I wonder if it's akin to slowing down at a car wreck on the highway to see what they can see.

Nooooo, he means people who definitely agree with the philosophy of this Barker novel unironically being excited about finding a new literary role model...

 

[MGibster]

The books are pretty mediocre, though historically a bit ahead of the curve in the genre towards Bildungsroman-meets-D&D, predating Dragonlance and such.

That's pretty much my assessment of fantasy books in general. They might be a fun way to pass the time, but most of them aren't all that memorable.

 

[shannona]

From the Wikipedia page:

"Feist acknowledges that the Tekumel setting from M. A. R. Barker's Empire of the Petal Throne was the source for much of Kelewan. The original D&D campaign which he based his books on had an invasion of the Midkemia world by Tekumel. As a result, much of the background of Kelewan - the Tsurani Empire, the lack of metals and horses, the Cho'ja, the pantheons of 10 major and 10 minor gods - comes from Tekumel. Feist claims to have been unaware of this origin when he wrote Magician."

The Riftwar Cycle - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As far as I know, no, Feist has not acknowledged that "Empire of the Petal Throne was the source for much of Kelewan".

One of the two articles referenced on that paragraph is my own, which states:

Midkemia's unique creation has also resulted in one bit of controversy: according to Feist, the original Midkemian Campaign run by Abrams and Everson contained some minor elements borrowed from Tékumel, as described in TSR's Empire of the Petal Throne (1975). Those elements were, of course, not brought into any of Midkemia Press' published books. However, Feist wasn't aware of this genesis, so some of these elements did find their way into the world of Kelewan — which opposed Midkemia in the Riftwar. Feist says the ultimate impact of Tékumel on the novels is "superficial", with other sources like Alan Dean Foster's Thranx and Jack Vance's Big Planet being just as important.

The other referenced article says "According to people who claim to have corresponded with Feist, he's admitted that Kelewan was heavily, heavily inspired by Tekumel". You couldn't get much flakier than "According to people who claim to have corresponded with Feist". That's a reference to unattributed hearsay.

There's no doubt that Kelewan was influenced by Tékumel to some degree, but as far as I'm aware (and I looked into it a fair amount), Feist has been very careful about what he said in that regard. The Wikipedia article unfortunately lies about what Feist said and holds up references which either don't say that or aren't reliable.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Yeah, the "public domain" versus "owned by people who knew the author, and covered up his being a Nazi" is a pretty significant difference. Nobody doubts where Lovecraft stood on anything, and no estate benefits from cribing and modifying his fiction.

Indeed.

This might, weirdly, turn into a silver lining for the Tekumel Foundation Board. If Mr. Victor Raymond, Jeff Dee, and a couple others worked together they might be able to publish a "Reclaim Tekumel" sourcebook or something. A portion of the proceeds to go to appropriate charities and organizations, a slice to content creators, and some to the Board. The only estate remaining is whatever retirement Mrs. Barker is living off of.

This would require someone with some marketing savvy, which the Board wholly lacks, and a will to get the project done. Some wrongs addressed, anyway.

Not that I think that would ever happen.

 

[Parmandur]

As far as I know, no, Feist has not acknowledged that "Empire of the Petal Throne was the source for much of Kelewan".

One of the two articles referenced on that paragraph is my own, which states:



The other referenced article says "According to people who claim to have corresponded with Feist, he's admitted that Kelewan was heavily, heavily inspired by Tekumel". You couldn't get much flakier than "According to people who claim to have corresponded with Feist". That's a reference to unattributed hearsay.

There's no doubt that Kelewan was influenced by Tékumel to some degree, but as far as I'm aware (and I looked into it a fair amount), Feist has been very careful about what he said in that regard. The Wikipedia article unfortunately lies about what Feist said and holds up references which either don't say that or aren't reliable.

Touche. However, it really is a pretty apparent influence, legal side-stepping aside.

 

[Parmandur]

That's pretty much my assessment of fantasy books in general. They might be a fun way to pass the time, but most of them aren't all that memorable.

Well, by definition, any healthy artistic culture is going to be mostly mediocre. The exceptional is always an exception, but when lots of workman mediocrity is being produced and consumed, the exceptional work is more likely to be attempted.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Tiftwar

Almost an awesomely disastrous typo!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm only familiar with it because of the PC RPG Betrayal at Krondor that came out almost thirty years ago. I remember almost nothing about it except you could only have three people in your party at one time. Oh, and there's a scene where you arrive at an inn only to find everyone has been poisoned.

Mac user, so that’s not part of my CRPG history.

 

[Parmandur]

Mac user, so that’s not part of my CRPG history.

Not the best CRPG ever, but it was a major milestone for use of plot and character in Western RPGs.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Indeed.

This might, weirdly, turn into a silver lining for the Tekumel Foundation Board. If Mr. Victor Raymond, Jeff Dee, and a couple others worked together they might be able to publish a "Reclaim Tekumel" sourcebook or something. A portion of the proceeds to go to appropriate charities and organizations, a slice to content creators, and some to the Board. The only estate remaining is whatever retirement Mrs. Barker is living off of.

This would require someone with some marketing savvy, which the Board wholly lacks, and a will to get the project done. Some wrongs addressed, anyway.

Not that I think that would ever happen.

Most importantly, you’d need a really skilled game design team. You can’t reclaim the game if the game itself isn’t worth reclaiming.

 

[Faolyn]

Let's be honest here, most people are not watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer and diving into deep critical analysis. You watch it, and then largely forget it.

There were legitimate college classes taught about Buffy.

Buffy studies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[overgeeked]

I didn't see this posted and don't see a date attached, but the Tekumel Foundation finally put out a statement.

Tékumel :: The World of the Petal Throne

Tékumel: The World of the Petal Throne.

www.tekumel.com

A few months ago I had an interest in running a Tekumel game. I got bogged down in the setting details and the languages so it never came about. I'm kinda glad it never started.

 

[Parmandur]

I didn't see this posted and don't see a date attached, but the Tekumel Foundation finally put out a statement.

Tékumel :: The World of the Petal Throne

Tékumel: The World of the Petal Throne.

www.tekumel.com

A few months ago I had an interest in running a Tekumel game. I got bogged down in the setting details and the languages so it never came about. I'm kinda glad it never started.

Doesn't really answer who know what, and when.

 

[overgeeked]

Doesn't really answer who know what, and when.

I doubt anyone outside a very small circle will ever know. They can only make themselves look worse by admitting to exactly how long they sat on it. There’s no upside for them letting that out. So it likely won’t happen.