D&D 5E What should an official Indian subcontinent inspired setting have?

[Mordhau]

Eh, D&D isn't really set in any specific period. It's a mishmash of all sorts of different eras and cultures.

It is, but sometimes it's set during Tang Dynasty China or Bronze Age Greece.

 

[Ancalagon]

I'm amazed no one has mentioned Yoon-Suin yet, although it should be mentioned it is not "accurate ", intentionally.

 

[Rabulias]

Without that grounded specificity—which takes work—fantasy drifts into the same old orientalist cliches. There is a fantasy-Nepal setting that osr types always praise called Yoon-suin. The very first page of this setting starts talking about the caste system in their game, and this is extremely off-putting to me. Caste is an ongoing structure of violence in South Asian communities. Why is that the first thing this non-South Asian author needs to include in their setting? Why does that do the work of communicating the “exoticness” of your world?

I'm amazed no one has mentioned Yoon-Suin yet, although it should be mentioned it is not "accurate ", intentionally.

You missed it in post 21.

 

[Ancalagon]

You missed it in post 21.

ah - I was reading it on my phone - no ctrl-f. Oh well - I will re-examine the thread.

 

[Ancalagon]

Without that grounded specificity—which takes work—fantasy drifts into the same old orientalist cliches. There is a fantasy-Nepal setting that osr types always praise called Yoon-suin. The very first page of this setting starts talking about the caste system in their game, and this is extremely off-putting to me. Caste is an ongoing structure of violence in South Asian communities. Why is that the first thing this non-South Asian author needs to include in their setting? Why does that do the work of communicating the “exoticness” of your world?

The first mention of caste is - if ctrl-f did not fail me - is on page 30. But it is part of the setting, yes, as well are other very cruel practices such as slavery. I'm... still not sure how to deal with all the terrible things of the past - and the present - in D&D settings to be honest.

As far as Yoon-Suin being "inaccurate" it definitely is. I'm not sure if it's harmful. I hope it isn't.

 

[Malmuria]

The first mention of caste is - if ctrl-f did not fail me - is on page 30. But it is part of the setting, yes, as well are other very cruel practices such as slavery. I'm... still not sure how to deal with all the terrible things of the past - and the present - in D&D settings to be honest.

As far as Yoon-Suin being "inaccurate" it definitely is. I'm not sure if it's harmful. I hope it isn't.

The third paragraph of the text reads

First, the inhabitants. It never fails to impress a visitor to the Yellow City that its citizens are by turns the wealthiest, most refined, and most educated people in all the world, yet at the same time capable of the most malicious cruelties and licentious depravities. Like all those whose societies are ancient and rich, they are also cynical and filled with ennui. The most singular feature of their life, which strikes any visitor the moment he arrives, is their strict hierarchical stratification, which all inhabitants obey without question.

On the low-caste "crab people," pp. 3-4:

They are unintelligent things, but strong and tough, and they are sometimes forced to do manual labour or simple tasks, on pain of death or torture and for scant reward. They are undoubtedly unfortunate and pathetic beings, very meek of character, though the people of the city think of them as the reincarnated souls of criminals and breakers of taboo, and deserving of their miserable lot.

My central concern there isn't accuracy, but that these descriptions are just heavily redolent of orientalist texts. Given that this part is written as a travelogue, perhaps the author is commenting on that, but it's also a game setting that is being presented to potential players. And I'm not "harmed" by it per se, but I have no desire to play in a setting that asks me to take caste stereotypes seriously, and that's in part because caste prejudice has negatively affected my family. Nor do I want to engage with a setting book that's just cliche after cliche. A lot of people like it apparently, but I found it to be unconvincing and "cringe," as the youth say.

It does raise the question of: when we say a setting is "Asian" or for that matter "medieval European," what about them exactly is "Asian" or "European"? But's a bit of a dodge to apply a veneer of Nepal to your setting and then turn around and say "it's just fantasy" when people question your choices.

 

[MGibster]

My central concern there isn't accuracy, but that these descriptions are just heavily redolent of orientalist texts. Given that this part is written as a travelogue, perhaps the author is commenting on that, but it's also a game setting that is being presented to potential players. And I'm not "harmed" by it per se, but I have no desire to play in a setting that asks me to take caste stereotypes seriously, and that's in part because caste prejudice has negatively affected my family. Nor do I want to engage with a setting book that's just cliche after cliche. A lot of people like it apparently, but I found it to be unconvincing and "cringe," as the youth say.

How do you think a caste system should be handled? In Legend of the Five Rings, the PCs are all samurai (or occasionally priests) so your character won't run into any issues of discrimination due to being a farmer, butcher, or merchant. While most of the PCs will have a worldview that the caste system is just the natural order as ordained from heaven above, various books throughout the editions make a point about how unfair and repressive the system really is. But to the best of my recollection, there's no real narrative in any of the editions to change the system for the better.

 

[humble minion]

The vast majority of western-influenced D&D settings blithely ignore the institutions of serfdom, pogroms, class immobility, feudal obligations, indentured servitude, child marriage etc. Not sure why it's at all important that an Indian-influenced setting includes coverage of the caste system, or a samurai-influenced setting detail the cheapness of non-samurai life when 'conventional' settings that riff heavily off western medieval/renaissance imagery casually edit out the unpleasant or un-fun-to-game-with historical bits.

 

[MGibster]

The vast majority of western-influenced D&D settings blithely ignore the institutions of serfdom, pogroms, class immobility, feudal obligations, indentured servitude, child marriage etc. Not sure why it's at all important that an Indian-influenced setting includes coverage of the caste system, or a samurai-influenced setting detail the cheapness of non-samurai life when 'conventional' settings that riff heavily off western medieval/renaissance imagery casually edit out the unpleasant or un-fun-to-game-with historical bits.

One of the more common criticism of D&D is that the PCs have very few attachments to society. i.e. The hobo part of being murder hoboes. But you're right, ignoring those institutions is certainly an option. It's the least interesting option in my opinion but it is an option.

 

[Ancalagon]

The vast majority of western-influenced D&D settings blithely ignore the institutions of serfdom, pogroms, class immobility, feudal obligations, indentured servitude, child marriage etc. Not sure why it's at all important that an Indian-influenced setting includes coverage of the caste system, or a samurai-influenced setting detail the cheapness of non-samurai life when 'conventional' settings that riff heavily off western medieval/renaissance imagery casually edit out the unpleasant or un-fun-to-game-with historical bits.

You should look up warhammer frgp.