Level Up (A5E) replacing exertion with HP

[W'rkncacnter]

I think he meant Magic: The Gathering - where is you have 1 pt of life left, you are just as good as having full; as he made a comparison to the about HP.

i was referring to "My players are min/max and play magic."

 

[orionox]

i was referring to "My players are min/max and play magic."

I was infact referring to MTG with that statement.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I was infact referring to MTG with that statement.

ah, okay, well nevermind then.

 

[Vampersan]

This is...intriguing, imo. I mean, if HP is largely considered an abstraction of general health/fatigue/rolling with the punches, I feel like substituting exertion out for HP could work, at least thematically. Balance-wise, I don't think it would cause a major issue either. Yes, warriors will have access to way more maneuvers per encounter than normally allowed, but I don't think any of the maneuvers in the core book are so wildly powerful that using them multiple times per encounter would be game breaking. Although, maneuvers that restore HP may need to be tweaked or disallowed so as avoid gaming the system (trading a small amount of HP to gain a significant amount more in return, thereby potentially allowing infinite maneuvers)?

You might also consider a system where martial characters can perform a set number of maneuvers per short/long rest, maybe like 3/short rest or 6/long rest? And then any attempt to perform more maneuvers without taking a rest triggers a Constitution Save (DC 8+2 each time another maneuver is attempted, with each failure resulting in a level of exhaustion).

Not so sure about that idea, though. Could be kind of harsh the more I think about it. At any rate, if everyone at your table is fine with the idea of taking "damage" to power maneuvers, more power to you.

I'm interested in seeing how this works, let us know the results if you end up trying it.

 

[orionox]

This is...intriguing, imo. I mean, if HP is largely considered an abstraction of general health/fatigue/rolling with the punches, I feel like substituting exertion out for HP could work, at least thematically. Balance-wise, I don't think it would cause a major issue either. Yes, warriors will have access to way more maneuvers per encounter than normally allowed, but I don't think any of the maneuvers in the core book are so wildly powerful that using them multiple times per encounter would be game breaking. Although, maneuvers that restore HP may need to be tweaked or disallowed so as avoid gaming the system (trading a small amount of HP to gain a significant amount more in return, thereby potentially allowing infinite maneuvers)?

You might also consider a system where martial characters can perform a set number of maneuvers per short/long rest, maybe like 3/short rest or 6/long rest? And then any attempt to perform more maneuvers without taking a rest triggers a Constitution Save (DC 8+2 each time another maneuver is attempted, with each failure resulting in a level of exhaustion).

Not so sure about that idea, though. Could be kind of harsh the more I think about it. At any rate, if everyone at your table is fine with the idea of taking "damage" to power maneuvers, more power to you.

I'm interested in seeing how this works, let us know the results if you end up trying it.

Thats sort of where I'm coming from. Thematically, HP is a measure of your ability to keep fighting, including moral,, stamina, and blood loss. So I figured making a special maneuvers cost stamina, so it should cost HP. Ontop of that, exertion shares its replenishment mechanic with HP anyway (hit dice). I've played 2 sessions with it and so for so good. I have actually gone back on my initial idea to increase player health to compensate. The fact that players get "unlimited" maneuvers is enough compensation I think actually balance out nicely. Yes, you get more of them, but they individually cost "more" since their cost isn't just a random resource you have and can blow without consequences other than dipping DPS or CC slightly.

 

[Vampersan]

Thats sort of where I'm coming from. Thematically, HP is a measure of your ability to keep fighting, including moral,, stamina, and blood loss. So I figured making a special maneuvers cost stamina, so it should cost HP. Ontop of that, exertion shares its replenishment mechanic with HP anyway (hit dice). I've played 2 sessions with it and so for so good. I have actually gone back on my initial idea to increase player health to compensate. The fact that players get "unlimited" maneuvers is enough compensation I think actually balance out nicely. Yes, you get more of them, but they individually cost "more" since their cost isn't just a random resource you have and can blow without consequences other than dipping DPS or CC slightly.

Very cool! I'm glad to hear it's working for your group. Do you find that your players are ever in danger of dropping below 0hp more often now than before, or no? Does your group have a healer, and if so, did you notice if that character was more willing to cast healing spells in-combat to compensate for the martial characters' HP loss, as opposed to just waiting to heal outside of combat?

Thanks for reporting the results, btw. ^.^

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

If you wanna go this route, make them cost hit dice not straight up hit points. We do some thing like this in our games.

Is similar to the 4E Healing surges

 

[orionox]

If you wanna go this route, make them cost hit dice not straight up hit points. We do some thing like this in our games.

Is similar to the 4E Healing surges

That increases reliance on long rests since that's how you get hit die back. Which is sort of what I'm trying to get away from, while also eliminating a needles (in my opinion resource.)

 

[orionox]

Very cool! I'm glad to hear it's working for your group. Do you find that your players are ever in danger of dropping below 0hp more often now than before, or no? Does your group have a healer, and if so, did you notice if that character was more willing to cast healing spells in-combat to compensate for the martial characters' HP loss, as opposed to just waiting to heal outside of combat?

Thanks for reporting the results, btw. ^.^

So we've really only had one good fight with it so far I'll get back to you after they've had a few more fights with it.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

That increases reliance on long rests since that's how you get hit die back. Which is sort of what I'm trying to get away from, while also eliminating a needles (in my opinion resource.)

Then allow recovery on short rest. Don’t limit yourself. If you are looking to make a change anyway, make change