D&D 5E Declarations that start combat vs. initiative

[Blue]

The party is in full view of an opposed group. Maybe they are talking, but there's no question that the other group is there and there is a general wariness that combat may occur but it's not definite. Very important - it is not definite that combat will occur.

One of the people involved declares something that will start combat. "When he insults my family I draw my rapier and stab him." There isn't anything particularly sneaky about it, like a subtle spell.

Do you roll initiative and that person goes where they go? Do you roll initiative but put them at the top? Do you treat it as possible surprise that combat is breaking out "right this second" and do something like roll insight or perception to see which combatants (on both sides) are surprised and not going in a first round? Or something else?

 

[Guest 7034872]

I guess I'm inclined to go with, "Roll for initiative as normal." My thinking is this: "I draw my rapier," gets action moving, but especially since the other group sees this happening, there's no guarantee the PC drawing his/her rapier will be the fastest one on the draw, right? Seeing who goes first is a matter of figuring out who has the fastest reaction time, and for that I like to keep it simple and just have folks roll.

 

[prabe]

I have done a couple of different things, depending. I've called for Initatives and resolved actions in order. I've called for inits and started with the person declaring the instigating action (no one surprised). I haven't really settled on a single approach.

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

"Rolling initiative" is not necessarily the same as "starting hostilities". Initiative is simply a method to slow down the game when too much is going on.

Let's assume that the NPC had a higher initiative than the PC. The NPC can then make the insult on its initiative, and the PC can draw and stab on its initiative.

The DM may also rule that the PC gets so obviously aggressive in its body language that everyone involved understands combat is going to start, even before the rapier is drawn. Then anyone at the top of the initiative table may commence combat.

 

[Jer]

I don't have a standard rule for this because it will depend on the context of the moment but absent additional context - I will check to see if the opponent sees it coming. If they don't then the attacker gets a free attack in and then initiative is rolled. If they see it coming then they also get a free attack back and then initiative is rolled.

 

[Kobold Stew]

In normal initiative order.

Every Western shootout shows us that saying you draw first does not mean that you do. What it does mean is that those that come first are attacking someone who hasn't done anything yet. And so they might not attack (if they care about repercussions from the law, being noble, etc.).

 

[Stormonu]

Roll for initiative as normal, the person starting this mess has advantage on the roll. Assuming no attempt to covertly start the attack, just spontaneous reaction.

Now, if the person does something like turn away, but then whip back to draw a weapon or somesuch, that'd be a Deception vs. Perception/Sense Motive check to see if the person was able to get surprise.

 

[el-remmen]

Roll for initiative as normal, the person starting this mess has advantage on the roll.

Ooh. I like this compromise.

 

[el-remmen]

Roll initiative as normal.

But since my table uses ready and delay - sometimes, those before the initiating person may ready their action or delay if they are the cautious type to see if the aggressor follows through. We play that readied actions interrupt the precipitating action.

 

[Lidgar]

Roll for initiative. The first round everyone except the one initiating combat could be treated as surprised. May give some opponents that are observing the initiator a chance (insight vs deception role) to notice their intent and therefore not be surprised the first round.