D&D 5E What Does a Strength 20 Look Like (In Real Life)?

[Oofta]

For an animal a bit closer to a Human, and one of our nearest cousins, a Silverback gorilla is around 5-9 times stronger than a Human, and can lift 4,000 lb (1,810 kg) on a bench press, while a well-trained man can only lift up to 885 lb (401.5 kg).

Apes have a Strength of 16 (size Medium) and Giant Apes 23 (size Huge) so you'd likely have a Silverback Gorilla somewhere in the middle of those two game stats, with 'Apes' likely representing something like an Adult Chimpanzee (also a crazy strong animal).

The strength of animals is vastly underrated in D&D. Many animals are far stronger than most people imagine, far beyond max human or even low-level superhero strength such as Captain America potential. It's applied differently, a grizzly bear doesn't need to show off to his weight lifter bros. On the other hand they can rip your car door off if there's something tasty inside. Of course I also think that grizzly bears' CR is also too low, but that's a different issue.

But people want to maintain the Tarzan fiction that a human could wrestle a gorilla and win. That, and the simplified math and calculations start to fall apart at higher levels of strength. So actual strength is far higher, applied strength in terms of what the game cares about is far lower.

 

[dave2008]

For an animal a bit closer to a Human, and one of our nearest cousins, a Silverback gorilla is around 5-9 times stronger than a Human, and can lift 4,000 lb (1,810 kg) on a bench press, while a well-trained man can only lift up to 885 lb (401.5 kg).

Just curious where you are getting these numbers. Also, are talking absolute or pound for pound?

I did a bit of research on this topic during the pandemic, though on chimps. You will see wild claims that a male chimp is 8x as strong as a person pound for pound. However, when people actually studied it, they found this wasn't even close to true. A male chimp is like 1.8-2x as strong as a human is pound for pound. Someone like Hathor would be stronger than the a chimp actually because he is so much bigger.

 

[dave2008]

The strength of animals is vastly underrated in D&D. Many animals are far stronger than most people imagine, far beyond max human or even low-level superhero strength such as Captain America potential. It's applied differently, a grizzly bear doesn't need to show off to his weight lifter bros. On the other hand they can rip your car door off if there's something tasty inside. Of course I also think that grizzly bears' CR is also too low, but that's a different issue.

But people want to maintain the Tarzan fiction that a human could wrestle a gorilla and win. That, and the simplified math and calculations start to fall apart at higher levels of strength. So actual strength is far higher, applied strength in terms of what the game cares about is far lower.

Conversely, we also like to exaggerate the strength of animals too. Like chimps being 8x as strong as a person, etc.

I terms of D&D (and specifically 5e) I understood to mean that characters with an 18-20 Strength are superhumanly strong. Now the mechanic don't really reflect that, but that is what I get with comparative analysis.

EDIT: I will add that a chimp is a lot more "athletic" than the big H though.

 

[dave2008]

Also, for @CleverNickName, I do appreciate you highlighting the achievements of RL athletes, but you had to now this thread was going to go a bit sideways right?

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's not about abstraction, it's about a fundamental discounting of physical prowess by the creators and the fanbase. They're so determined to degrade mundanity (and exclude most supernatural) in order to highlight discreet magic.

 

[steeldragons]

I tend to think of ye olde "18" as the natural peak/top of human potential performance.

Since this is a fantasy game, and magic is real, clearly it is not only possible, but not uncommon, for various creatures, species, and human/humanoid persons to be able to exceed that.

So I would say "20" is "enhanced human" but not, necessarily, "inhuman" or "godly."

My homebrew -because we're talking about heroic fantasy- permits PCs to "naturally" exceed their species maximums with ASIs to get to a 19 or 20, only at the upper levels of play. I think you can use an ASI to get over 18 in your class prime ability at 12th (or so) level, and any ability score after 15th or 17th, I think.

I'd put the likes of Captain America and Black Panther at 20. I'd let things like big/bulky hobgoblins, some orcs, some lizardmen and troglodytes, most bugbears all could (naturally) venture up to 20.

Spiderman (or Iron Man with the mechanics of the armor) is reaching into, like, a 22. This would be your bugbears, your ogres, your trolls ("Large," bulky, heavily-muscled types). Humans, Orcs, et al, would need some kind of magic or mutation to achieve this.

[Marvel] Thor is [D&D] 25. This gets you equivalent to giants, titans, some gods. While Hulk, quite literally, has no upper limit.

 

[Flamestrike]

Just curious where you are getting these numbers. Also, are talking absolute or pound for pound?

I did a bit of research on this topic during the pandemic, though on chimps. You will see wild claims that a male chimp is 8x as strong as a person pound for pound. However, when people actually studied it, they found this wasn't even close to true. A male chimp is like 1.8-2x as strong as a human is pound for pound. Someone like Hathor would be stronger than the a chimp actually because he is so much bigger.

Hathor weighs 140kgs, around double that of an Adult male Chimpanzee which weighs 70 kilos.

Chimps being roughly twice as strong as humans pound for pound puts them close to even there.

Hathor has a Strength of 18 (peak human strength). The Chimp (being a 5E Ape) has a Strength of 16.

It's likely Hathor has talked his DM into allowing him to swap his starting feat (as a Human) to this custom feat instead:

Big Unit
- You gain +1 to your Strength score, to a maximum score of 20
- Powerful Build: You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.

 

[Flamestrike]

Of course I also think that grizzly bears' CR is also too low, but that's a different issue.

Commoner (you or I) with a gun (modern revolver, assume proficiency, +2 to hit, 2d8 piercing) vs Grizzly. Starting 50' apart.

Grizzly wins.

Different story vs a Fighter of course, but you or I are not Fighters.

 

[abirdcall]

I think it is reasonable to give Hafthor (and other world class strongmen) a strength score of 22-24.

They're over 400lbs and eat over 10k calories per day.

They take a lot of drugs which are basically magic.

They have doctors advising them which is easily equivalent to a Manual of Gainful Exercise.

Finally they use specially designed assistive equipment much like Belts of Giant Strength.

 

[abirdcall]

Hathor weighs 140kgs, around double that of an Adult male Chimpanzee which weighs 70 kilos.

Chimps being roughly twice as strong as humans pound for pound puts them close to even there.

Hathor has a Strength of 18 (peak human strength). The Chimp (being a 5E Ape) has a Strength of 16.

It's likely Hathor has talked his DM into allowing him to swap his starting feat (as a Human) to this custom feat instead:

Big Unit
- You gain +1 to your Strength score, to a maximum score of 20
- Powerful Build: You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.

He does now. He lost over 50kg recently. He won't be nearly as strong now as he was.