D&D 5E What Does a Strength 20 Look Like (In Real Life)?
- Thread starter CleverNickName
- Start date
Mod Note:
Honestly, what did this contribute to the thread besides snark? Be better going forward, please.
Baldurs_Underdark
Hero
I very much appreciate the simplicity of the rules of 5E D&D, which work fine for all creatures that have STR scores typically between 5-20.
If you want to extrapolate these rules to the almost inhuman achievements of the OP, or to huge/gargantuan monsters with STR scores well above 20, we need to acknowledge that some kind of exponential function would probably fit better (e.g. lifting capacity is 0.3*STR^3).
But boy I'm happy we don't need to bring out the calculators in the game, so this is definitely NOT advice for WotC to change the system. Please keep it simple with easy linear relations! Half of our group of friends already struggle to add up 4d6!
If you want to extrapolate these rules to the almost inhuman achievements of the OP, or to huge/gargantuan monsters with STR scores well above 20, we need to acknowledge that some kind of exponential function would probably fit better (e.g. lifting capacity is 0.3*STR^3).
But boy I'm happy we don't need to bring out the calculators in the game, so this is definitely NOT advice for WotC to change the system. Please keep it simple with easy linear relations! Half of our group of friends already struggle to add up 4d6!
FitzTheRuke
Legend
I dunno... Hafthor is probably stronger than a grizzly bear. They don't even lift!
But it would be hard to test, what with all the claws.
aco175
Legend
Could I assume that big monsters have some sort of powerful build feature, maybe call it huge build or massive build that lets a dragon turtle do things with its mass, like move a house off its foundation. The Strength score may be just part of its power and useful for fighting damage.
Oofta
Legend
The funny thing is that when people think of guys that are really strong, they think of body builders who look completely ripped. Thing is, those guys are going for show, not for actual function. People that are actually really, really strong? They look huge (obviously) but look more like:
Or, of course like
Or, of course like
Flamestrike
Legend
An adult grizzly can lift around 500kg, or half a metric ton.
Im sure if he spent time in the iron shop scuplting his guns, it would be considerably more.
And that's without opposable thumbs for grip (so he's also going to need a good spotter).
FarBeyondC
Explorer
Given that player characters can- by default, anyway- drag, lift, or push 30x their Strength score in weight for a stupidly long time (hours and hours and hours) before getting a chance (and only just a chance) of being exhausted, I've always found the idea of people taking the PHB numbers as absolute maximum numbers more than a little silly.
Nah. That's a natural 20 on a weightlifting check on a guy with 20 Strength and Expertise in weightlifting.
Flamestrike
Legend
For an animal a bit closer to a Human, and one of our nearest cousins, a Silverback gorilla is around 5-9 times stronger than a Human, and can lift 4,000 lb (1,810 kg) on a bench press, while a well-trained man can only lift up to 885 lb (401.5 kg).
Apes have a Strength of 16 (size Medium) and Giant Apes 23 (size Huge) so you'd likely have a Silverback Gorilla somewhere in the middle of those two game stats, with 'Apes' likely representing something like an Adult Chimpanzee (also a crazy strong animal).
Apes have a Strength of 16 (size Medium) and Giant Apes 23 (size Huge) so you'd likely have a Silverback Gorilla somewhere in the middle of those two game stats, with 'Apes' likely representing something like an Adult Chimpanzee (also a crazy strong animal).
Oofta
Legend
The strength of animals is vastly underrated in D&D. Many animals are far stronger than most people imagine, far beyond max human or even low-level superhero strength such as Captain America potential. It's applied differently, a grizzly bear doesn't need to show off to his weight lifter bros. On the other hand they can rip your car door off if there's something tasty inside. Of course I also think that grizzly bears' CR is also too low, but that's a different issue.
But people want to maintain the Tarzan fiction that a human could wrestle a gorilla and win. That, and the simplified math and calculations start to fall apart at higher levels of strength. So actual strength is far higher, applied strength in terms of what the game cares about is far lower.
dave2008
Legend
Just curious where you are getting these numbers. Also, are talking absolute or pound for pound?
I did a bit of research on this topic during the pandemic, though on chimps. You will see wild claims that a male chimp is 8x as strong as a person pound for pound. However, when people actually studied it, they found this wasn't even close to true. A male chimp is like 1.8-2x as strong as a human is pound for pound. Someone like Hathor would be stronger than the a chimp actually because he is so much bigger.
dave2008
Legend
Conversely, we also like to exaggerate the strength of animals too. Like chimps being 8x as strong as a person, etc.
I terms of D&D (and specifically 5e) I understood to mean that characters with an 18-20 Strength are superhumanly strong. Now the mechanic don't really reflect that, but that is what I get with comparative analysis.
EDIT: I will add that a chimp is a lot more "athletic" than the big H though.
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dave2008
Legend
Also, for @CleverNickName, I do appreciate you highlighting the achievements of RL athletes, but you had to now this thread was going to go a bit sideways right?
Vaalingrade
Legend
It's not about abstraction, it's about a fundamental discounting of physical prowess by the creators and the fanbase. They're so determined to degrade mundanity (and exclude most supernatural) in order to highlight discreet magic.
I tend to think of ye olde "18" as the natural peak/top of human potential performance.
Since this is a fantasy game, and magic is real, clearly it is not only possible, but not uncommon, for various creatures, species, and human/humanoid persons to be able to exceed that.
So I would say "20" is "enhanced human" but not, necessarily, "inhuman" or "godly."
My homebrew -because we're talking about heroic fantasy- permits PCs to "naturally" exceed their species maximums with ASIs to get to a 19 or 20, only at the upper levels of play. I think you can use an ASI to get over 18 in your class prime ability at 12th (or so) level, and any ability score after 15th or 17th, I think.
I'd put the likes of Captain America and Black Panther at 20. I'd let things like big/bulky hobgoblins, some orcs, some lizardmen and troglodytes, most bugbears all could (naturally) venture up to 20.
Spiderman (or Iron Man with the mechanics of the armor) is reaching into, like, a 22. This would be your bugbears, your ogres, your trolls ("Large," bulky, heavily-muscled types). Humans, Orcs, et al, would need some kind of magic or mutation to achieve this.
[Marvel] Thor is [D&D] 25. This gets you equivalent to giants, titans, some gods. While Hulk, quite literally, has no upper limit.
Since this is a fantasy game, and magic is real, clearly it is not only possible, but not uncommon, for various creatures, species, and human/humanoid persons to be able to exceed that.
So I would say "20" is "enhanced human" but not, necessarily, "inhuman" or "godly."
My homebrew -because we're talking about heroic fantasy- permits PCs to "naturally" exceed their species maximums with ASIs to get to a 19 or 20, only at the upper levels of play. I think you can use an ASI to get over 18 in your class prime ability at 12th (or so) level, and any ability score after 15th or 17th, I think.
I'd put the likes of Captain America and Black Panther at 20. I'd let things like big/bulky hobgoblins, some orcs, some lizardmen and troglodytes, most bugbears all could (naturally) venture up to 20.
Spiderman (or Iron Man with the mechanics of the armor) is reaching into, like, a 22. This would be your bugbears, your ogres, your trolls ("Large," bulky, heavily-muscled types). Humans, Orcs, et al, would need some kind of magic or mutation to achieve this.
[Marvel] Thor is [D&D] 25. This gets you equivalent to giants, titans, some gods. While Hulk, quite literally, has no upper limit.
Flamestrike
Legend
Hathor weighs 140kgs, around double that of an Adult male Chimpanzee which weighs 70 kilos.
Chimps being roughly twice as strong as humans pound for pound puts them close to even there.
Hathor has a Strength of 18 (peak human strength). The Chimp (being a 5E Ape) has a Strength of 16.
It's likely Hathor has talked his DM into allowing him to swap his starting feat (as a Human) to this custom feat instead:
Big Unit
- You gain +1 to your Strength score, to a maximum score of 20
- Powerful Build: You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Flamestrike
Legend
Commoner (you or I) with a gun (modern revolver, assume proficiency, +2 to hit, 2d8 piercing) vs Grizzly. Starting 50' apart.
Grizzly wins.
Different story vs a Fighter of course, but you or I are not Fighters.
ad_hoc
(they/them)
I think it is reasonable to give Hafthor (and other world class strongmen) a strength score of 22-24.
They're over 400lbs and eat over 10k calories per day.
They take a lot of drugs which are basically magic.
They have doctors advising them which is easily equivalent to a Manual of Gainful Exercise.
Finally they use specially designed assistive equipment much like Belts of Giant Strength.
They're over 400lbs and eat over 10k calories per day.
They take a lot of drugs which are basically magic.
They have doctors advising them which is easily equivalent to a Manual of Gainful Exercise.
Finally they use specially designed assistive equipment much like Belts of Giant Strength.
ad_hoc
(they/them)
He does now. He lost over 50kg recently. He won't be nearly as strong now as he was.
