D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[Vaalingrade]

I for one would not engaged with this game at all if it ever showed signs of wanting, needing or deserving to be taken seriously.

I'm not one for game about 'ard men main' 'ard choices, eatin' 5 packs of cigarettes a day and washing them down with a half gallon of whiskey, then dying from an impacted colon what from all the cigarette butts backed up in there.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I'm not one for game about 'ard men main' 'ard choices, eatin' 5 packs of cigarettes a day and washing them down with a half gallon of whiskey, then dying from an impacted colon what from all the cigarette butts backed up in there.

Wow you wrote a sequel to Altered Carbon in like one sentence.

I for one would not engaged with this game at all if it ever showed signs of wanting, needing or deserving to be taken seriously.

I tend to agree. I do think there are RPGs that it can be fun to take a bit more seriously but D&D survives and thrives by virtue of being so fundamentally ludicrous that a lot of more... questionable... elements ("kill them and take their stuff!" for example) just seem like part of the general idiocy.

 

[MGibster]

So, ultimately my point is that it doesn't make sense to put all kids into one single demographic.

You're right that it doesn't make sense and I think toy manufacturers have realized that for years. In the 1980s, Mattel's Masters of the Universe line of toys was for boys aged 5-10 with the expectation that older kids would not be into it. And from what I can recall about my own childhood, that bears out.

Going back to, "it's just an elf-game" is the laziest argument this forum can produce. Not very respectful either. I'm really tired of seeing it.

It wasn’t an argument. I was poking some fun at the idea of someone flippantly telling us to enjoy our totally “grown up” 5e while they go enjoy OSR. There’s just something inherently funny to me about someone making such a statement when both games involve adults pretending to be magical elves, barbarians with mighty thews, or mysterious creatures with horns, tail, and a penchant for skullduggery.

it reminds me of that scene from West Side Story where the teenager petulantly tells the police officer, “We’re adults! Ooob-ooblie-ooh!”

 

[Burnside]

• Wild Beyond the Witchlight - displacer beast kittens and talk your way out of fluffy challenges.

You can't possibly have read it and arrived at this description.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

All leisure activates are silly. D&D, sports, there all a stupid waste of time.

That's the point. We do serious dull stuff all day to earn a living, then we do something silly to get away from that.

This is true about a lot of leisure activities, but it’s also pretty reductive. There are lots of people watching dramas on TV and film whose content and tone are truly bleak and non-silly. Same for books, especially for nonfiction readers.

RPGs are a narrative leisure activity. Why discount the idea of narratives that lean less silly?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

There are lots of people watching dramas on TV and film whose content and tone are truly bleak and non-silly.

They're equally escapist, though, in my experience, at least in most cases. Ridiculously bleak nonsense like The Walking Dead is more escapist than stuff that's a bit silly/twee but has more relation to actual human behaviour/experience (not going to turn this into an argument about TWD but it is a show where the zombies are the most human and plausible characters on it...).

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think AD&D's target demographic was twelve year old kids though. At least I don't believe the authors' would have included the infamous harlot table in AD&D if their target demographic were adolescent males. But then Predator wasn't marketed for my eleven year old self in 1987 but I absolutely loved it!

I think the target demographic of AD&D was high school and up. 12 would have been a little young to be a target demographic, but Gary probably wouldn't turn away kids that young(and I think his kids played at those young ages), though he probably would have modified his games a bit and perhaps not included harlots in those games. He'd probably have that same expectation of DMs at large that ran games for younger kids.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't think AD&D's target demographic was twelve year old kids though. At least I don't believe the authors' would have included the infamous harlot table in AD&D if their target demographic were adolescent males. But then Predator wasn't marketed for my eleven year old self in 1987 but I absolutely loved it!

to be fair I can't imagine a way to market to 12-15 year old boys BETTER then talking about sex and harlots...

 

[payn]

to be fair I can't imagine a way to market to 12-15 year old boys BETTER then talking about sex and harlots...

Some things never change.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

They're equally escapist, though, in my experience, at least in most cases. Ridiculously bleak nonsense like The Walking Dead is more escapist than stuff that's a bit silly/twee but has more relation to actual human behaviour/experience (not going to turn this into an argument about TWD but it is a show where the zombies are the most human and plausible characters on it...).

I definitely wasn’t thinking about something like TWD, but I also wasn’t assuming leisure activities have to be escapist. Hereditary is basically a modern horror classic at this point, and there’s nothing escapist about that movie. It’s punishing, relentless, and deeply disturbing. That’s not for everyone but it’s certainly for a lot of people.

In RPGs some are looking for escapism and power fantasies, while some are interested in seeing when and how they get torn to shreds in Mothership or a DCC funnel. Silliness is a choice and a preference, same as going for less or no silliness.

ETA: Yes, Mothership and DCC funnels can be very silly in their own ways, but often because of how grotesque and over-the-top the violence is, which is different, imo, from space hamsters and such, where the game is presenting you with jokey, silly material, as opposed to the jokes and silliness that emerge at the table.