D&D 5E Further Future D&D Product Speculation

[Parmandur]

There are some issues with elements of the setting, as @Parmandur and @teitan have referenced, though those are probably manageable. But the basic (or advanced, ha ha) problem is that Greyhawk is very tied up with the classic D&D tropes in their original form, and veteran Greyhawk fans are likely to be extra sensitive to any deviation from that. If Wizards changes elements of the setting to include core 5E elements - especially elements that have only become core in the last few years - it's likely to at least greatly disappoint that fanbase, if not turn them off altogether. Keep in mind that setting changes from the 2E era are considered controversial among some Greyhawk fans...

Putting it simply, Wizards would have to be willing to either take the risk of walking back some of the philosophical shifts they've made in recent years, or be willing to take the risk of producing a neo-Greyhawk that pleases neither old nor new fans.

Hence my prediction that Greyhawk is more likely to receive a limited Saltmarsh treatment (as, significantly, it already has), and the Realms will be the featured setting for the "revisit."

Ghosts of Saltmarsh and Ravenloft were well received, though, so I don't really see this as significant.

 

[Parmandur]

I’m revising my order. Planescape as a sourcebook like campaign setting then Forgotten Realms will be the big classic setting next year. It’s been in demand for years. They’ve de-emphasized them a bit in the adventures and they have a contract with Ed. Big product for next year. Then Greyhawk launching with the revision, Dark Sun in 2025.

Well, the central information we know is that there is 1 Classic Setting new to 5E in 2023, and one Classic Setting not new to 5E in 2024. That leaves 2023 open to a few possibilities, but limits the 2024 product to the Forgotten Reams, Greyhawk, or Eberron.

 

[Parmandur]

Indeed. They even explicitly tried to make the one major tiefling NPC fit into the setting (by tying her to Iuz), and it still got some grumbling. Now imagine doing that on a setting-wide scale.

No biggie, doubt that WotC received major pushback. The text notes that Dragonborn and Tieflings are rare in Greyhawk. However, there are two nations in the Gosts of Saltmarsh time frame, Iyz and the Horned Society, where Tieflings would seem to be normal, and PHB Dragonborn are rare wanderers anyways.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

And what about to create a spiritual succesor of Dark Sun, but more as spin-off than replacing the original? Maybe prudence answers to not mention it because in the real life we may be informed with some serious scandal about traffic of human beings, and then this thread would become really unconfortable. Then shouldn't be cancelled "Las & Order: Special Victims Unit" because it is about that type of criminals? Slavery should be showed in D&D when there were stories about fighting againt this. There is a movie of Jean Claude Van Damme where the antagonists are organ traffickers. This crime is happening in the real life, should that old movie to be cancelled? Mark Twain's "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" is about the escape of a former slave, Jim. Should be cancelled all the movies about pirates, because these were slave trafficers?

Please, let's us to keep the good sense.

If you worry too much, then WotC only has to publish a digital version, and if nobody complains too much then the physical books could be published.

* We shouldn't worry too much about FR spin-off Maztica, al-Quadim and Kara-Tur. With a book about crunch, PC races, and creatures it would be enough, and technically it is allowed to publish in DMGuild.

 

[Parmandur]

Interesting. Sounds like that would be a much better candidate for this format than Planescape. I always considered it the poor man's Planescape, but then I am a snob.

Dark Sun is an interesting one to consider. I think the main problem is the "one and done" thing WotC does with settings. I mean, if you did a Dark Sun slipcase, you'd need to reprint all the psionic subclasses and probably a couple more, and the wild talents, and maybe some "weapon materials" and "alternate armour" and "desert survival" rules, and probably also defiling/preserving, and a new race or three (including a reprint of Thri-Kreen) and unfortunately that's probably like 40+ pages right there without even a Psion full class. It's easy to see how you could get a 64-page adventure (let's kill Kalak again - I honestly never get bored of killing Kalak!) and 64 pages of monsters for Athas, but trying to detail the setting in 20-odd pages? That would be challenging as hell. Otherwise this would be a great format for that.

Really, I think they need to look at upping the main book to 128 or more pages, that would solve so many potential problems.

Also if they weren't doing "one and done", they could have it be like "Dark Sun: The Fall of Kalak" or something and detail the other city-states later and maybe just manage to jam that all into that format.

I don't think we necessarily have to assume the 3x64 format for slipcases. May be that's just what they found fit what Perkins wanted to accomplish.

 

[Parmandur]

I mean, if they wanted to bring in a psion class, immediately after an edition revision would definitely be the right time if they were hoping it would become popular. I do think a well-done psion-type could easily eclipse the less-popular classes in popularity.

I doubt they will do a Psion Class. Reprint the Tasha's material, and create Psionic themed Dragonlance style souped up Backgrounds with Feats.

 

[Parmandur]

Thank you, I agree. Being of middle-eastern descent myself, I think its not enough to hand over Al-Qadim to someone of middle-eastern descent. Even if you were to remove the caricatures, Al-Qadim's problem is that it was still originally made by folks who only had a western pop-culture understanding of the culture they were presenting. (though in the 80's, I'm sure it was nice to see a fantasy Arabia at all).

If I worked for WOTC, I would not be satisfied with working within the parameters of Al-Qadim. My job would be just removing caricatures, reworking some things, and giving it a stamp of approval. If I was asked to present my culture as a D&D setting, I would want a blank slate to present how I think it should be presented, not just retconning something someone else made in a different time.

I hear that, buy that doesn't neccesmean WotC won't try to get a working Middle Eastern society in the Forgotten Realms.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Sure. And while I mostly agree, I'm not as hard line about it as you. I don't think a non-Arab is incapable of writing an Arabian-themed setting, but it would certainly help make it better to have more people involved who're actually knowledgeable about the culture involved than...what...zero. If nothing else, WotC could simply hire the folks who put out Campaign Guide: Zakhara.

I think a non-Arab could write something with a cultural consultant. AFAIK Grubb didn't have that.

 

[Parmandur]

I think it's been discussed quite a lot academically that there are basically gradations of slavery, with chattel slavery as the most extreme and horrifying (unfortunately the original DS focuses on this via Muls etc.), and serfdom isn't even one of the least-awful kinds of slavery, it's kind of in the middle (fr'ex some historians regard the Helots of Sparta as "serfs" rather than straightforward slaves, and yeah, they didn't have a great time). It's definitely essentially a form of slavery given you're born into it and can't go "Okay I'm leaving!". I think the problems around using slavery in fiction largely relate to chattel slavery, but you can get almost all the same setting impact with just a vaguely realistic portrayal of serfdom. I still remember how shocked I was to learn about serfdom in medieval Japan, and saying "But that's basically slavery!" and then looking at Western Medieval serfdom and going "Oh wow it was basically the same in the West, if not worse...". I was kind of annoyed with various history teachers who had basically sold this idea of medieval peasants as "free" and "serfs" as like "just a name".

Why did people fight tooth and nail for their rights when the landed gentry took away their rent control...? Medical European Serfdom was, often, rent control in a barter economy.

 

[Aldarc]

Yeah, for sure: partly an advantage if the Setting being a light touch on details. Easy to change.

I have a setting that fits this description!