Games with "terrible" follow-up editions

[jdrakeh]

This is disappointing to hear. I just recently discovered "Silverway" and was excited, as Everway is one of my all-time favorites.

Not to threadjack, but do you own the books? It seems like the page count has enormously increased...I assume that means a ton more lore? Setting stuff? Etc. Is there a lot of new stuff, or did they just incorporate Spherewalker's Handbook into the main books?

I don't own the books yet, though they're on my "to buy" list. The previews don't reveal much more expanded content in the terms of mechanics, though. As you note, however, the expanded page count surely must account for something. Maybe the Spherwalker's Handbook? I already own that (it's not as rare as once thought) and the original core box is available for around $65-ish in a mint, sealed, condition. Hence my statement that the new edition is seemingly perfunctory.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I personally didn’t like the way Mutants & Masterminds went after 2Ed, but it wasn’t so annoying that I hated it. I simply didn’t buy any of it.

But when HERO (my favorite system) released something called the “Fuzion” edition? It was produced in partnership with R. Talsorian Games.

I felt betrayed. I was wondering why it existed and if I’d ever purchase another product. Fortunately, it was short lived, at least, as a “Champions” product line. I think there were a pair of supplements, and that was it. I can’t remember what I bought in the line, and I’m not sure I still own it. As I understand it, there’s a few games out there that use the Fuzion system.

The irony is, Fuzion was a pretty good system viewed in and of itself; for some purposes I found it in some ways superior to Hero. But the way it was pushed was bad and the modified super-powers system they used as a plug-in was one of the weakest they had for all its extent.

 

[jdrakeh]

Open question: which edition of Shadowrun is playable?

2nd, 3rd, and 5th are pretty playable. Of those, though, 2nd and 3rd suffer from not being very complete in the core rulebook and having key components of the system spread out across multiple supplements. 2nd had great lore, though. 3rd had very little lore and, instead, focused on rules in its supplements. 5th is very much complete in the core book (I'd go so far as to say that supplements are optional), but the organization of that book is pretty awful.

[Edit: I don't know about 4th, but I've heard that it's bad and that most people switched over to the Anniversary edition when it came out. Sixth World was bad upon its initial release, but the new Seattle Edition core rulebook incorporates all of the errata and looks pretty good.]

 

[jdrakeh]

d20 Call of Cthulhu was one of the best of the d20 glut of games that came out. When it came to introducing new players to the game, I think d20 CoC was better than the classic version of the game.

I honestly think it's a better pure genre horror game than Chaosium's CoC (CoC has tried to do non-Cthulhu horror several times over the years and it's just not very good at it) and provides a better pulp Cthulhu experience than the official Pulp Cthulhu.

 

[TheAlkaizer]

its layout being hard to navigate

The layout of the core rulebook especially is really bad. I saw something compare it to the layout in a fashion magazine and I see it now. It's really, really bad. Good for casually reading through, terrible for using at the table. I've found the latest releases by Renegade Studios to be a considerable improvement.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

Back in the day I ran a long campaign in SR 1e. It was fun but the system is clunky. Workable, but clunky.
I played 1 session of 2e and a power gaming buddy of mine broke the system in that session so I don't want to use it.
I haven't played or even read any of the other editions.

But I do love the setting.

Open question: which edition of Shadowrun is playable?

I think 5th edition is maybe the most playable, though if you're worried about OP characters you still have to limit some options and interactions, and remind everyone that it's a pretty chaotic system that occasionally needs to be reined in (plus there are some obvious and nonobvious errors not always covered by errata).

But the rules are also spread across a whole bunch of books, so there's that issue. And it's one of the crunchiest systems ever made. No getting around the complexity.

Also Forbidden Arcana is widely considered to have broken stuff in it. It's worked well for the game I'm running, but I'm not really worrying about balance, since the campaign I'm running is pretty light on combat.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

because that's the version of the lore that my group is familiar with and wants to use (we've been using the 6e rules, so far, but they're honestly such a mess that we voted unanimously to switch to a different system if we could come up with one that works with the current lore.)

That makes sense. I did a deep dive on 5e and 6e a couple years ago when I was deciding which one to run, and I felt like you could very easily use 5e for everything in 6e (whereas doing the opposite wasn't true, since 6e still doesn't have a lot of the character options that are in 5e, and that I think most people expect from a SR game). There's a lot of space stuff in 6e, but fingers crossed you aren't doing much of that, and there are rules for zero-g, space hazards, etc. in one of 5e's many--too many!--books.

 

[Scottius]

Our GM was very upset with the TSR, as I recall.

WOTC owns the IP now. I wonder if they will eventually do something with it. Maybe it's too close to D&D and they want to avoid competing with themselves.

I was reading the rules for Arena of Death, the intro mini-game for Dragonquest, not long ago. Fun game. I want to try it out in 2022.

I know DQ still has a loyal fanbase online. I wonder if a retroclone version of the rules system would be possible. It would be nice to have a way for the rules to be available to new players.

2nd, 3rd, and 5th are pretty playable. Of those, though, 2nd and 3rd suffer from not being very complete in the core rulebook and having key components of the system spread out across multiple supplements. 2nd had great lore, though. 3rd had very little lore and, instead, focused on rules in its supplements. 5th is very much complete in the core book (I'd go so far as to say that supplements are optional), but the organization of that book is pretty awful.

[Edit: I don't know about 4th, but I've heard that it's bad and that most people switched over to the Anniversary edition when it came out. Sixth World was bad upon its initial release, but the new Seattle Edition core rulebook incorporates all of the errata and looks pretty good.]

2nd Edition is my favorite for design/style/lore. I found 4th edition to have the most playable rules. I do think having a core rulebook exist in two formats , the original mono color and the superior 20th Anniversary edition, probably hurt the edition in the long run. I don't love the wireless integration in 4th edition and later versions but there is the 2050 book for 4e out there.

 

[eyeheartawk]

2nd Edition is my favorite for design/style/lore. I found 4th edition to have the most playable rules. I do think having a core rulebook exist in two formats , the original mono color and the superior 20th Anniversary edition, probably hurt the edition in the long run. I don't love the wireless integration in 4th edition and later versions but there is the 2050 book for 4e out there.

From what I recall Shadowrun 20th immediately and totally replaced the previous version of 4e for everyone I knew. Didn't they also re-organize the whole thing too, in addition to incorporating errata and just being a much more handsome book?

 

[Thomas Shey]

From what I recall Shadowrun 20th immediately and totally replaced the previous version of 4e for everyone I knew. Didn't they also re-organize the whole thing too, in addition to incorporating errata and just being a much more handsome book?

Certainly when I decided I really needed to decide if 4e or 5e was better, none of the reviews I saw seemed to suggest there was any good reason to not do the 20A version.