Games with "terrible" follow-up editions

eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
I was just looking into, and discussing in a different thread, about the latest edition of Shadowrun and how it seems to have not been well received by alot of people who played the previous edition. Which got me thinking (a rare occurrence, natch). What other games* have had editions that a not insignificant amount of the existing player-base at the time vocally rejected?

*I'm not gonna say don't talk about D&D editions in this thread, but I don't really wanna get bogged down in debating minutiae of how one edition handled cart laden encumbrance etc, or general edition warring.

6exemt.jpg
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Jer

Legend
Supporter
I mean he specifically kind of pointed out that that particular discussion is going to be useless. Maybe he was a bit too subtle about it.

To try to drag this back into non edition war territory - the various editions of Ars Magica had a variety of negative reactions around them over the years. IIRC - and I might be misremembering - Fourth was especially contentious.
 


eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
Yeah, I guess it is the obvious elephant in the room that needs mentioning, but yeah let's not go hard on this, we don't want this thread to blow up into one of those.
To try to drag this back into non edition war territory - the various editions of Ars Magica had a variety of negative reactions around them over the years. IIRC - and I might be misremembering - Fourth was especially contentious.
Do you remember what was contentious about it? Removed too much stuff? Added too much stuff?
 

Mezuka

Hero
Star Frontiers got a 1.1 edition in the form of a book called Zebulon's Guide to the Galaxy. TSR Designers proposed the FASERIP colour-coded system as a replacement for the d100 system. There was a big outcry by the community. Wasted pages that could have been used to expand the setting with new planets and creatures, for example. Still today, some are fuming over this book.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I mean he specifically kind of pointed out that that particular discussion is going to be useless. Maybe he was a bit too subtle about it..

sure, but stating that shadowrun 5e was a confused mess that adds nothing new is anyless edition wars than comparing dnd editions
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Do you remember what was contentious about it? Removed too much stuff? Added too much stuff?
I'm trying to remember and I think it was mostly that it shifted from being a White Wolf game to being an Atlas Games game. A whole lot of stuff got removed or changed from the game at that point because between 2nd and 3rd White Wolf changed a bunch of stuff about the assumptions of ArM to make it more compatible with their World of Darkness games. I think (and again I might be wrong on this -it's been well over 20 years ) the folks who came in with 3rd were irritated about the changes and the folks who were there from 1e or 2e actually liked the move.

It wasn't outright rejected by Ars folks, and in fact eventually it became a popular edition, but I do remember a subset of folks not moving on to 4e because they liked the White Wolf version more. I may also be conflating the events of the time together - it was a bit of a dark time for Ars as it was sold by White Wolf to Wizards of the Coast originally and they had Tweet working on the 4th edition, and then they bought TSR and their plans shifted suddenly and they sold Ars and their 4e rewrite to Atlas. Some of the fan reaction I'm remembering might be less about the game itself and more about how it was being perceived as being passed around by companies at the time.

(Oh my poor brain - being asked to dredge up 25 year old memories. it's my own fault for having 25 year old memories I suppose).
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Star Frontiers got a 1.1 edition in the form of a book called Zebulon's Guide to the Galaxy. TSR Designers proposed the FASERIP colour-coded system as a replacement for the d100 system. There was a big outcry by the community. Wasted pages that could have been used to expand the setting with new planets and creatures, for example. Still today, some are fuming over this book.
They were so excited about those color coded tables - some folks must have believed they were the wave of the future. Gamma World had to get a new 3rd edition using them, and Star Frontiers got a stealth half edition using them. And yet the only TSR game that they worked well for was Marvel - in both GW and SF they were just pointless add-ons.

(Same idea worked fairly nicely for Pacesetter though - I remember both Chill and Timemaster being fairly fun games and they used a similar idea.)
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
sure, but stating that shadowrun 5e was a confused mess that adds nothing new is anyless edition wars than comparing dnd editions

Oh, yes it is less a war. You seem to be conveniently forgetting history. You are calmly eliding over the vehemence and vitriol of the discussion around 4th edition D&D that made use refer to "edition war" in the first place. People were horrible and hurtful to each other as human beings. And they remember that.

That has not happened around Shadowrun.

So, really, I recommend that 4th edition be left as the elephant off in the corner of the room, because this community treated each other so incredibly badly before, that we are not really able to be civil about it to this day.
 


Jer

Legend
Supporter
I think the absolute worst must be Paranoia 3e and 4e - two editions so bad that even the internet has suppressed knowledge of their existence.
Not sure if you're joking or... (if not joking, which edition are you calling 4e?)

Seriously, they have fewer fans even than "Highlander II" and "Star Trek V" - that's how bad they were!

Paranoia "Fifth edition" (which is actually the third edition) definitely fits this discussion. I'm trying to think of another example of a company so thoroughly misunderstanding the entire premise of a game that they'd been publishing for years and I can't think of any that come anywhere near Paranoia "Fifth Edition". Comparing it to Highlander 2 is really appropriate in that respect - a similar kind of misfire by people who owned the property but didn't understand why people liked it.
 


Oh, yes it is less a war. You seem to be conveniently forgetting history. You are calmly eliding over the vehemence and vitriol of the discussion around 4th edition D&D that made use refer to "edition war" in the first place. People were horrible and hurtful to each other as human beings. And they remember that.

That has not happened around Shadowrun.

So, really, I recommend that 4th edition be left as the elephant off in the corner of the room, because this community treated each other so incredibly badly before, that we are not really able to be civil about it to this day.
But with a little effort this thread could incubate NEW edition wars!
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Paranoia "Fifth edition" (which is actually the third edition) definitely fits this discussion. I'm trying to think of another example of a company so thoroughly misunderstanding the entire premise of a game that they'd been publishing for years and I can't think of any that come anywhere near Paranoia "Fifth Edition". Comparing it to Highlander 2 is really appropriate in that respect - a similar kind of misfire by people who owned the property but didn't understand why people liked it.

I didn‘t include it because that Product never existed.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
For me, Hero System 6th. (And it's earlier name Champions.)

I started playing Champions back 3rd edition, with all of the little softcovers, but ended up playing 4th edition for years and years, the Big Blue Book. I didn't really do as much with 5th and FREd (Fifth Revised Edition) but I know those that did. But I have 6th and ... it just doesn't hit the nostalgia bones. No figured characteristics, rampant power and adjustment renaming for no real reason, etc. Just did not do it for me - rather play an earlier edition.

No idea how well it works for people just picking it up - might be great. but as a newer edition it didn't continue the traditions well.
 


James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
Hm. I think anything I say will be subjective, but I felt that the original Legend of the Five Rings game was pretty sharp. The 2nd Edition really only made a few rules tweaks (the big one was making Skills roll and keep instead of Rings). The Oriental Adventures version was...eh...and the new version of the game feels pretty clunky to me.
 

Dragonquest 3rd edition.
Both WHFRP 3rd and 4th caused some eye brow raising. I'm really not getting on with 4th.
I believe some Vampire edition had some issues.

And the jump from BECMI to Cyclopaedia just added too much complications for me!
 

Dungeon Delver's Guide

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top