D&D General Travel In Medieval Europe

[Tonguez]

How many pilgrimages were being made to the Holy Land from England in, say, the 6th or 7th century? How many pilgrimages do you see in Central Africa? Some, I'm sure. And there's always nomadic peoples, sure. But, I really think it's a mistake to model our D&D worlds on Late Middle Ages, Early Renaissance Europe. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

pilgrimages from Europe to the Holy Land were happening in the 1st century, though they really gained momentum after the 4th century and Constatines reclaiming of the Holy Land. Even before that the Greeks and Romans undertook pilgrimages and there were pilgrimages in the middle east (such as the Feast of Passover where Jewish men were required to travel to Jerusalem)

and there are a huge number of Sacred sites in Africa - the Great Mosque of Djenné, Mali dates to 800AD. Mt. Oldonyo Lengai in Tanzania has been a place of worship for (possibly) 1000s of years. The Masai still take childless Women there to pray for children.

 

[Hussar]

Danger aside, the society D&D presents is much more late medieval/early modern than it is Carolingian or late antiquity Europe.

And thus the problem I'm having here. D&D as presented is a FAR more dangerous world than the real world.

And, again, when 90% of your population are farmers, they aren't traveling all that much. Granted that means you do have 10% of your population that IS traveling, which can be rather a lot of people, but, the idea that travel was common isn't really accurate either. These pilgrimages were HARD. People died on them. And, they were generally pretty major undertakings. Not something you just decided to do because you felt like it. This was something you did a few times in your lifetime, if at all.

But, I do think the point still stands. A D&D world is an incredibly dangerous place. But, all that gets sort of glossed over to present a fantasy world that looks suspiciously like the Western US in about the 19th century, minus trains.

 

[reelo]

A D&D world is an incredibly dangerous place. But, all that gets sort of glossed over to present a fantasy world that looks suspiciously like the Western US in about the 19th century, minus trains.

You've nicely summed up my problem with most officially published D&D settings, adventures, and artwork. The ideal campaign setting I have in mind is much closer to Anglo-Danish/Norman/Carolingan times than to what we have now.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You've nicely summed up my problem with most officially published D&D settings, adventures, and artwork.

You forgot the key one: the rules.

The ideal campaign setting I have in mind is much closer to Anglo-Danish/Norman/Carolingan times than to what we have now.

There weren't many real wizards running around in those times. Nor monsters. Nor personal appearances from gods.

 

[aco175]

I demand complete medieval verisimilitude in my fantasy games.

All my characters die at 20 of a papercut.

You give them paper, I make them stretch sheep skin into parchment. Harder to cut themselves, so I make them roll on the "Oregon Trail Chart". Most die of dysentery.

 

[Ixal]

And thus the problem I'm having here. D&D as presented is a FAR more dangerous world than the real world.

And, again, when 90% of your population are farmers, they aren't traveling all that much. Granted that means you do have 10% of your population that IS traveling, which can be rather a lot of people, but, the idea that travel was common isn't really accurate either. These pilgrimages were HARD. People died on them. And, they were generally pretty major undertakings. Not something you just decided to do because you felt like it. This was something you did a few times in your lifetime, if at all.

But, I do think the point still stands. A D&D world is an incredibly dangerous place. But, all that gets sort of glossed over to present a fantasy world that looks suspiciously like the Western US in about the 19th century, minus trains.

Thats simply wrong. Farmers travelled. Especially regional pilgrimages to celebrate marriages, pray for a sick family member and other events. Or just as a form of holiday as no lord could reasonable deny someone to go on a pilgrimage.
They also often eventually went on a longer pilgrimage to Spain for example or to Mecca as it is the duty of every Muslim to travel there once.

Heck, that a large part of the population were farmers was true till the modern era. Yet that there are so many pilgrimage sites in Europe should tell you that they tended to travel too as otherwise no one would ever visit them.

As for the D&D world being more dangerous, if it were so dangerous as you say it is there wouldn't be merchants, the technology level would be far lower and instead of big countries there would at best only be city states. Yet that is not the case in FR/D&D.

 

[Oofta]

And thus the problem I'm having here. D&D as presented is a FAR more dangerous world than the real world.

And, again, when 90% of your population are farmers, they aren't traveling all that much. Granted that means you do have 10% of your population that IS traveling, which can be rather a lot of people, but, the idea that travel was common isn't really accurate either. These pilgrimages were HARD. People died on them. And, they were generally pretty major undertakings. Not something you just decided to do because you felt like it. This was something you did a few times in your lifetime, if at all.

But, I do think the point still stands. A D&D world is an incredibly dangerous place. But, all that gets sort of glossed over to present a fantasy world that looks suspiciously like the Western US in about the 19th century, minus trains.

Just because we have options for all sorts of monsters it does not mean that those monsters are common. They're just options, many of which are only found in hidden locations far away from civilized lands.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

For the most part, I've found that religion doesn't play a promiment role in D&D.

The irony, for me, is that it almost always has when I play (because I like paladins), and has in the (DW) game that I run. Three out of our four long-running players have either found some kind of new or enhanced personal faith (the Druid and the Ranger), or have embraced a religious role in the lives of others (the Bard).

Now, in the case of my home game, it might be because I have intentionally left the question open as to whether "God" (to the Safiqi priests, "The One"; to the priests of faraway Yuxia, "The August Jade Emperor") actually is God, or is just a powerful and ancient spiritual entity in a different way from the other spirits "native" to their world.

 

[Ancalagon]

On the other hand, if D&D would be as dangerous as you insinuate here, then civilizations like described in the FR would not be possible as the level of development described in the books would require a higher level of trade and trade is also often mentioned in the source material. But if pilgrims were not safe, traders wouldn't either.

This is a major annoyance for me - random encounters for PCs that basically mean that travel is impossible for ordinary NPCs. Sure, PCs tend to "attract" trouble, but it can get really silly.

 

[Hussar]

Not really sure your map is proving your point @Ixal. You realize that's a pretty small area right? If your argument is that most people stay within a hundred klicks of wherever they were born, and that's your idea of major travel, well, sure, okay. Because, just to put it perspective, your map there? That's about the distance from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate.

But, hey, I still don't know why you folks are arguing with me. The first line from the video said EXACTLY what I'm saying. The overwhelming majority of people barely traveled. Heck, as you say, the trip to Mecca is a once in a lifetime thing.

As for the D&D world being more dangerous, if it were so dangerous as you say it is there wouldn't be merchants, the technology level would be far lower and instead of big countries there would at best only be city states. Yet that is not the case in FR/D&D.

That would, of course, be the point. FR/D&D shouldn't look like it does. But, hey, it was good enough for Tolkien, so, we just gloss over anything even remotely resembling logical world building. We'll make any excuses, ignore anything we need to, just so we can have our Ren Faire settings.