D&D General Travel In Medieval Europe

[Hussar]

See, the biggest problem with all of this is the anachronism. People are talking about the history of Europe in roughly 10-15th centuries. Somewhere in that neighbourhood anyway. Thing is, by that point in time, Europe was a pretty darn safe place. No major predators to speak of. No large animals - what, a cow would likely be the largest animal in Europe by the 10th Century AD? The most dangerous thing a English peasant would encounter in a day of walking might be an indignant badger.

Not counting other people of course. But, even then, it wasn't that dangerous either. It's not like you were going to stumble across Viking Raiders in the 14th century. Most European peasants, outside of war zones, faced pretty much no dangers.

Now, compare that to a D&D world. Where, even ignoring hostile humanoids, you have a shopping list of Beasts (both magical and mundane) that are perfectly willing to snack on that wandering farmer. The space between towns would be far closer to what you might see in Central Africa where you have lions, hyenas and elephants, all quite willing to eat, maul or squash humans. Instead of 14th Century Europe, we would be far better looking at 5th Century, where you still have larger predators, dangerous animals and far less civilization to protect people.

How many pilgrimages were being made to the Holy Land from England in, say, the 6th or 7th century? How many pilgrimages do you see in Central Africa? Some, I'm sure. And there's always nomadic peoples, sure. But, I really think it's a mistake to model our D&D worlds on Late Middle Ages, Early Renaissance Europe. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

See, the biggest problem with all of this is the anachronism. People are talking about the history of Europe in roughly 10-15th centuries. Somewhere in that neighbourhood anyway. Thing is, by that point in time, Europe was a pretty darn safe place. No major predators to speak of. No large animals - what, a cow would likely be the largest animal in Europe by the 10th Century AD? The most dangerous thing a English peasant would encounter in a day of walking might be an indignant badger.

To be fair, wolves were very common throughout the British Isles in the Middle Ages - Edward I gave an order for their extermination around 1300, but it took another 400 years for full extirpation There are accounts from the 10th century of literally hundreds of wolfskins being offered in tribute to Athelstan.

But your larger points stands: D&D tends to be predicated on a much more dangerous wilderness, and fortified steadings separated by several days' dangerous travel - with only guarded caravans daring to make the journey - is a more reasonable model.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

See, the biggest problem with all of this is the anachronism. People are talking about the history of Europe in roughly 10-15th centuries. Somewhere in that neighbourhood anyway. Thing is, by that point in time, Europe was a pretty darn safe place. No major predators to speak of. No large animals - what, a cow would likely be the largest animal in Europe by the 10th Century AD? The most dangerous thing a English peasant would encounter in a day of walking might be an indignant badger.

Not counting other people of course. But, even then, it wasn't that dangerous either. It's not like you were going to stumble across Viking Raiders in the 14th century. Most European peasants, outside of war zones, faced pretty much no dangers.

Now, compare that to a D&D world. Where, even ignoring hostile humanoids, you have a shopping list of Beasts (both magical and mundane) that are perfectly willing to snack on that wandering farmer. The space between towns would be far closer to what you might see in Central Africa where you have lions, hyenas and elephants, all quite willing to eat, maul or squash humans. Instead of 14th Century Europe, we would be far better looking at 5th Century, where you still have larger predators, dangerous animals and far less civilization to protect people.

How many pilgrimages were being made to the Holy Land from England in, say, the 6th or 7th century? How many pilgrimages do you see in Central Africa? Some, I'm sure. And there's always nomadic peoples, sure. But, I really think it's a mistake to model our D&D worlds on Late Middle Ages, Early Renaissance Europe. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Danger aside, the society D&D presents is much more late medieval/early modern than it is Carolingian or late antiquity Europe.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The fantasy and futuristic versions of the Warhammer universe don’t shy away from great religions that heavily influence the players and the campaign setting.

Maybe I am wrong but as an outsider it looks to me that in 40K the religion is just the worst tropes and stereotypes about christianity piled on top of each other and then amplified, but not really functional.

Warhammer originates in the UK, where religion is viewed very differently to USA - possibly the biggest cultural divide between the countries.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Thing is, by that point in time, Europe was a pretty darn safe place. No major predators to speak of. No large animals - what, a cow would likely be the largest animal in Europe by the 10th Century AD? The most dangerous thing a English peasant would encounter in a day of walking might be an indignant badger.

Wild animals have never been a serious threat to humans. Humans, on the other hand, are. And human bandits have periodically been a major problem, usually during and immediately after periods of warfare and unrest.

And lawless areas certainly existed, e.g. the border between England and Scotland: Border reivers - Wikipedia

 

[Paul Farquhar]

To be fair, wolves were very common throughout the British Isles in the Middle Ages - Edward I gave an order for their extermination around 1300

Wolves where exterminated because of the threat they posed to the growing wool industry, not because they seriously threatened humans.

 

[Ixal]

See, the biggest problem with all of this is the anachronism. People are talking about the history of Europe in roughly 10-15th centuries. Somewhere in that neighbourhood anyway. Thing is, by that point in time, Europe was a pretty darn safe place. No major predators to speak of. No large animals - what, a cow would likely be the largest animal in Europe by the 10th Century AD? The most dangerous thing a English peasant would encounter in a day of walking might be an indignant badger.

Not counting other people of course. But, even then, it wasn't that dangerous either. It's not like you were going to stumble across Viking Raiders in the 14th century. Most European peasants, outside of war zones, faced pretty much no dangers.

Now, compare that to a D&D world. Where, even ignoring hostile humanoids, you have a shopping list of Beasts (both magical and mundane) that are perfectly willing to snack on that wandering farmer. The space between towns would be far closer to what you might see in Central Africa where you have lions, hyenas and elephants, all quite willing to eat, maul or squash humans. Instead of 14th Century Europe, we would be far better looking at 5th Century, where you still have larger predators, dangerous animals and far less civilization to protect people.

How many pilgrimages were being made to the Holy Land from England in, say, the 6th or 7th century? How many pilgrimages do you see in Central Africa? Some, I'm sure. And there's always nomadic peoples, sure. But, I really think it's a mistake to model our D&D worlds on Late Middle Ages, Early Renaissance Europe. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

We have both reports of pilgrimages to the holy land in the 4th century, which were encouraged by the church, and that pilgrims were often targeted by robbers and raiders, especially when they had predictable routes and times like when going on Hajj, even on later dates. Not to mention that often there were wars along pilgrimage routes and religious tensions between the pilgrims and the people of the lands they passed through in the case of the Holy Land.

On the other hand, if D&D would be as dangerous as you insinuate here, then civilizations like described in the FR would not be possible as the level of development described in the books would require a higher level of trade and trade is also often mentioned in the source material. But if pilgrims were not safe, traders wouldn't either.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There is also the matter of population to consider. As population increased, so did the threat of banditry, both directly, because the probability of encountering other humans whilst travelling increased, and indirectly, because of increased warfare and poverty.

There was a lot of travel around Europe during the so called "Dark Ages", because the population was lower. It probably decreased, in terms of percentage of the population who travelled further than the nearest city, during the Medieval period.

Other factors: The crusades. Lots of ordinary folk where conscripted to fight in a far off land. Feudalism. This political system put legal restrictions on people's right to travel. But medieval =/= feudal.

Another factor to consider is how people travelled. Water was the most important means of long distance travel. Which made Western Europe and North Africa quite accessible, with lots of coastline and navigable rivers. Mountains, deserts and wide oceans where significant impediments.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

There is also the matter of population to consider. As population increased, so did the threat of banditry, both directly, because the probability of encountering other humans whilst travelling increased, and indirectly, because of increased warfare and poverty.

There was a lot of travel around Europe during the so called "Dark Ages", because the population was lower. It probably decreased, in terms of percentage of the population who travelled further than the nearest city, during the Medieval period.

Other factors: The crusades. Lots of ordinary folk where conscripted to fight in a far off land. Feudalism. This political system put legal restrictions on people's right to travel. But medieval =/= feudal.

Another factor to consider is how people travelled. Water was the most important means of long distance travel. Which made Western Europe and North Africa quite accessible, with lots of coastline and navigable rivers. Mountains, deserts and wide oceans where significant impediments.

Just a minor point, feudalism didn’t really restrict anyone’s right to travel. Serfs are not slaves and the rules you might imagine might have existed were not enforced to any great level.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Just a minor point, feudalism didn’t really restrict anyone’s right to travel. Serfs are not slaves and the rules you might imagine might have existed were not enforced to any great level.

That would depend on which variety of feudalism you are looking at. For example, under Russian feudalism there was very little difference between serfs and slaves, and that persisted up until the beginning of the 20th century.