D&D (2024) Elf as a class

[Remathilis]

I can't see "elf" as a class either as a base class like basic or a paragon/prestige class like 3e. Elf is barely able to be a race with a defined cultural and appearance traits, there is 0% chance it could define a class.

That said, I'd like a gish class like duskblade that is supposed to represent the old elf f/m mix. Something with more magic than an ek, less than a bladesinger.

But I don't see enough value in a dwarf class, a halfling class, a dragonborn class, an aasimar class, etc. I also think the audience for this would be vanishingly small. I love Basic, but even I would prefer race and class to be separate and elves be able to be clerics, rogues, single-classed wizards, etc.

 

[Jer]

Speaking with experience and the benefit of hindsight - race as class worked back in the day because character customization was essentially moot. Being able to play an Elf was basically a reward in the character creation minigame of stat rolling - were you lucky enough to be able to play the character who could use a sword and cast spells? Congratulations! You rolled really well and won't be stuck playing the cleric this time. As the character creation minigame fell out of favor and character modeling became the approach the majority wanted, the race-as-class choice became less interesting. Even by the end of BECMI there was a Dwarf Cleric class and an Elf Warrior class (among others) that had worked their way into the game via Gazetteers and the Hollow World boxed set to acknowledge that the race-as-class design of BECMI was just lacking something. (Separating Races and Classes in BECMI was always one of the big house rules I'd see people make back in the day too).

I think for 5e race-as-class foils one of 5e's core design elements, which is that players should be making a small number of big choices at character creation. Race, Class, Background - rolling Race and Class into one thing removes a big choice with no return.

Having said that - I think having a class that Elves can take that represents that traditional Elven Fighter/Wizard is an interesting idea. And I do agree that the Eldritch Knight isn't quite it, so I'm interested to see where you go with this.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That said, I'd like a gish class like duskblade that is supposed to represent the old elf f/m mix. Something with more magic than an ek, less than a bladesinger.

I mean me too, I could even argue that my frame work could work for that too... but I am wondering if the small amount of people that WOULD like it could make it work

But I don't see enough value in a dwarf class, a halfling class, a dragonborn class, an aasimar class, etc. I also think the audience for this would be vanishingly small. I love Basic, but even I would prefer race and class to be separate and elves be able to be clerics, rogues, single-classed wizards, etc.

yeah I know elf was F/MU I assume the dwarf was fighter/cleric and the hafling was theif... maybe fighter/thief

 

[the Jester]

how?

The interaction of race and class is an important decision point, even if you use the floating ASIs that are now all the rage, but even moreso if you stick to racial bonuses to specific stats.

yes, but as I have been told over and over again, people like simple.

Hey, if you like it, go for it. I just don't think your first take is very good. I'd lean harder into the fighter/mage thing and drop the stuff from other classes.

 

[delericho]

yeah I know elf was F/MU I assume the dwarf was fighter/cleric and the hafling was theif... maybe fighter/thief

In BECMI both the Dwarf and the Halfling were basically just Fighters.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The interaction of race and class is an important decision point, even if you use the floating ASIs that are now all the rage, but even moreso if you stick to racial bonuses to specific stats.

I mean that defeats the purpose of the thought experiment

Hey, if you like it, go for it. I just don't think your first take is very good. I'd lean harder into the fighter/mage thing and drop the stuff from other classes.

did you read the part were the example was thrown togather on a whim and NOT something I wanted or would use?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In BECMI both the Dwarf and the Halfling were basically just Fighters.

really? they didn't get anything?

 

[Jer]

In BECMI both the Dwarf and the Halfling were basically just Fighters.

Fighters with extra traits, which were "paid for" by different XP tables and with "level caps" (that were done away with practically speaking by the Companion set rules). The Dwarf had to pay a premium to get their extra resistance to spells better saving throws overall and their sloping corridor detection. The Halfling IIRC didn't pay anything for their extra boosts - I guess the thought was that their extra abilities (better AC against man-sized or larger creatures and a bonus to attacks with missile weapons and better saving throws overall) didn't warrant an XP increase? Or were traded off against their small size which penalized them when they used weapons that were too large? Or maybe originally the level 8 level cap was seen as enough of a penalty and by the time they removed level caps they didn't really care anymore about that kind of "balance"? Could go any way...

ETA: Just looked it up - Dwarves and halflings both got a better saving throw table than the regular Fighter did. Still not sure why Halflings didn't have to pay any kind of premium for it beyond rolling well on stats though.

 

[Remathilis]

In BECMI both the Dwarf and the Halfling were basically just Fighters.

Basically. Dwarves were fighters with infravision, stonecunning and better saving throws, halflings were fighters with a bonus on hiding, ranged weapons, and surprise (more akin to spell-less rangers). Later books in Mystara added subclasses to racial classes that mimicked dwarf clerics, elf magic users, etc. By the time of the Princess Ark and rakasta (cat people), lupins (dog people) and tortles, they were just taking regular classes like an AD&D character anyway.

It's an idea that's time has passed, like Thac0.

 

[Remathilis]

Fighters with extra traits, which were "paid for" by different XP tables and with "level caps" (that were done away with practically speaking by the Companion set rules). The Dwarf had to pay a premium to get their extra resistance to spells and their sloping corridor detection. The Halfling IIRC didn't pay anything for their extra boosts - I guess the thought was that their extra abilities (better AC against man-sized or larger creatures and a bonus to attacks with missile weapons IIRC) didn't warrant an XP increase? Or were traded off against their small size which penalized them when they used weapons that were too large? Or maybe originally the level 8 level cap was seen as enough of a penalty and by the time they removed level caps they didn't really care anymore about that kind of "balance"? Could go any way...

They paid for it with a d6 HD, smaller than the fighter and dwarf d8 and on par with the cleric.