WotC WotC blacklist. Discussion

[Umbran]

this make it SOOOO very complex and case by case

What? You mean the world is filled with nuance and details, rather than simple broad classifications we can trust all the time? The devil you say!

 

[The Glen]

This also isn't the first we've heard about WotC having a blacklist. It came up before re: Orion Black. I can't remember exactly the situation, but there was some implication that after the bust-up with WotC, Orion Black would be blacklisted by WotC and others.

Correction: Orion Black publicly lambasted WOTC for treating him as a diversity hire in his own words. Graeme Barber was the one in the Candlekeep Kerfluffle.


He went well outside the scope of the assigned project by adding a playable race to a short adventure which would require a lot of extra work on the part of WOTC to add it to related works. Went way over maximum word count requiring the editior to cut it down by several pages to make it fit. Got upset over a choice of synonyms by the use of primitive to describe hastily thrown together shelters. Then aired his complaints on public media. That will get you a death glare from an editor and make you persona non gratis in the industry. Being unable to follow the project guidelines is bad enough for a new writer, then asking to have your name taken off the book is a career killer.

 

[Greg Benage]

He went well outside the scope of the assigned project by adding a playable race to a short adventure which would require a lot of extra work on the part of WOTC to add it to related works.

Isn't this Graeme Barber, rather than Orion Black?

 

[Mistwell]

So you will buy from NuTSR? Zak S? Satine?

I am referring to my business, not personal matters. For my business, the only blacklist-like thing I have is an unwritten list of vendors I found to be too expensive. Who I would still work with if I cannot find someone less expensive, or if the matter is of some great urgency and they're the fastest method then I might use them still.

Personally, I have lots of people I don't want to buy from. But that's not a matter involving my business which is what I thought the context of this kind of blacklist was focused on. We were talking WOTC having a blacklist of people they won't work with as part of their business.

I also think the closer to artistic matters a business gets, the more likely this is an issue. For my kind of business, which is not very close to the artistic end of the spectrum and much closer to the utilitarian end, it's just not really a factor. There just isn't an opportunity for me to know the people I work with on that kind of level.

 

[grimslade]

RPG design and production is a small incestuous pool. A blacklist doesn't have to be anything formal just people who have worked together asking for opinions. I doubt there is a list that is disseminated but almost everyone existing in RPGs has worked or knows of others in the biz.

 

[LordEntrails]

For my kind of business, which is not artistic at all, it's just not really a factor. There just isn't an opportunity for me to know the people I work with on that kind of level.

Makes sense. But if you became aware that a current or potential business partner was an "X", would you do business with them? Maybe X is a social issue, maybe it's because they embezzled from their last company, maybe its because you know that they regularly do not uphold their end of agreements...

In short, their are valid reasons not to associate professionally or personally with certain people and businesses. As such, a "blacklist" by itself is not necessarily evil or bad. Like many things, it can be used for good or bad.

 

[Mistwell]

Makes sense. But if you became aware that a current or potential business partner was an "X", would you do business with them? Maybe X is a social issue, maybe it's because they embezzled from their last company, maybe its because you know that they regularly do not uphold their end of agreements...

In short, their are valid reasons not to associate professionally or personally with certain people and businesses. As such, a "blacklist" by itself is not necessarily evil or bad. Like many things, it can be used for good or bad.

I agree there are valid reasons to decline to associate with a business, I am just saying I don't have that experience with mine. At least not so far. The thing I was responding to was that everyone would have such a list if you were around long enough.

I mean, I do business with Chinese manufacturers, which definitely has the risk of finding one which is a bad actor in a variety of ways. I make attempts to verify they treat their employees well, and I wouldn't do business with a manufacturer which treats employees poorly (though I can only do so much due diligence from the US). But so far I have been lucky in that the vendors I've encountered all met my standards to a satisfactory degree. If I find some day one of them doesn't, then yes I will stop doing business with them. That just hasn't happened yet.

 

[The Glen]

Isn't this Graeme Barber, rather than Orion Black?

Whoops. You are correct. That's what i get trying to do this from memory on the fly.

 

[Jer]

RPG design and production is a small incestuous pool. A blacklist doesn't have to be anything formal just people who have worked together asking for opinions. I doubt there is a list that is disseminated but almost everyone existing in RPGs has worked or knows of others in the biz.

It's less a "blacklist" and more a "whisper network". You can loudly shout compliments towards creators who are good to work with, but to find out who the PITA folks are you have to have connections willing to tell you about their bad experiences. Which people are loathe to do - not just because of threats of lawsuits, but because in general IME managers of all stripes just don't want to talk smack about people in public but will open up if you know them personally and can talk more casually. When you find a manager who is loud about some bad former contractor/employee it's either because that manager is a loudmouth or a terrible manager (always possible) or because the actual behavior from that former contractor/employee is just so egregiously bad that it bypasses the mental filters that are in place that have that "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all" behavior active in so many of us.

 

[dave2008]

Just kind of all a blur of "Pre-Covid-Times" for me, at this point...

no s@#$!