D&D (2024) 5.5/6e - Is it time for Wounds/Vitality?

[Vaalingrade]

I think this "death spiral" malarky is just a screen to say "I don't want things to change" or "I like the system the way it is" or "Wounds are fine and 5e is the best thing since sliced bread."

It's actually a clever, low key way of saying 'I don't want a death spiral'.

 

[J.Quondam]

If you don't like the death spiral, don't get hit.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

It should be easy and fast to be understood by new players. Some times I have thought to use two "pools", one would be the classic "hit points" and the other would be the "health levels", close to the storytelling system. The health levels would be the same for the most of times, but recovering would be harder and slower. Something like the shields by the protos in Starcraft. The classic hit points would be the "shield", and the health leves would be true "lifeforce".

 

[DND_Reborn]

I feel like W/VP would be perfect for the next edition or half edition, solving a long outstanding complaint about hitpoints while maintaining a system that is still easy to use and pretty intuitive. What do you think?

YES, YES, YES and a thousand times YES!!! It is a far superior system to just hit points.

I was so disappointed when I looked into 5E and they did not adopt it....

 

[Cruentus]

It's actually a clever, low key way of saying 'I don't want a death spiral'.

A "death spiral" isn't actually a thing in the game. There is no reason mechanically or story-wise that a death spiral should occur. I interpret death spiral to mean "I don't want anything in the game that might limit my character from doing whatever I want." Heaven forbid we lost hit points, heaven forbid we have any kind of lasting effects (nope, spells re-save every round), injuries? Pfft. As good as gold at 1hp as at 156hp.

The wounds/vitality discussion is more about taking something abstract, ie HP, and making them more specific: meat and "luck". If that level of specificity grates on you, then don't use it. Some of us might want that included in the rules (optional or otherwise), because it makes the game more interesting to us.

Death Spiral is a conversation/discussion killer. Its abstract, isn't actually a "thing" in the game, just a buzzword that gets thrown about when someone doesn't agree with something having to do with introducing more challenge to the game.

 

[Jer]

Death Spiral is a conversation/discussion killer. Its abstract, isn't actually a "thing" in the game, just a buzzword that gets thrown about when someone doesn't agree with something having to do with introducing more challenge to the game.

"Death spiral" is a term in RPG design to describe a mechanic where a character's ability to perform gets worse as they take damage, making it easier for the character to die the more damage they take. It isn't abstract at all except in the sense that all game design terms are abstractions in some way - it's a description of a type of game mechanic that can be good or bad depending on the kind of game you're playing.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's actually a clever, low key way of saying 'I don't want a death spiral'.

I don't think redifineing hitpoints by itself needs to make a death spiral. Although Bloodied mechanics would be nice again

 

[Oofta]

no we can't it was said WELL HE WAS REPRESENTING the company and no one ever said it was changed.

Maybe there was a reason they didn't keep him around? Maybe he was promising things that didn't sound like a workable product or one that others believed would not target the market they were aiming for? The so-called "promises" were comments made during an interview, never published as official direction for the product. What was there to retract? They had a public play test to give people ideas what the system would be and gave plenty of time for feedback.

In any case it's water that went under the bridge so long ago that it long ago made it's way to the ocean. The horse is dead and buried, there's no reason to keep beating the grave.

 

[Stalker0]

"Death spiral" is a term in RPG design to describe a mechanic where a character's ability to perform gets worse as they take damage, making it easier for the character to die the more damage they take. It isn't abstract at all except in the sense that all game design terms are abstractions in some way - it's a description of a type of game mechanic that can be good or bad depending on the kind of game you're playing.

Correct, and while a W/VP system can include a death spiral (once you take damage from your wound pool you suffer a -2 to your AC as one example), it certainly doesn't have to. The only penalty to taking wound damage could simply be the difficulty in healing it back, which is not a death spiral.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"Death spiral" is a term in RPG design to describe a mechanic where a character's ability to perform gets worse as they take damage, making it easier for the character to die the more damage they take. It isn't abstract at all except in the sense that all game design terms are abstractions in some way - it's a description of a type of game mechanic that can be good or bad depending on the kind of game you're playing.

the best example I have is WoD. You have 7 health levels but when down 3 you are at -1 to all rolls, and down 4 is -2... by 6 (almost dead) you are at -5 to all rolls) now WoD is worse cause you roll to dodge or parry and to soak damage... so you get worse at avoiding damage cause you have damage