D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?

[Mind of tempest]

No Unique doesn't. A big problem gnomes have is that their niches are neither conflicting nor contrasting but are basically unique.

Halflings drift more easily than gnomes because what they are is something other than a grab bag of tropes thrown together without thematic coherence. And that is why as of 2017 they were more popular than gnomes in every single class except wizard, druid, and by the thinnest of margins, warlocks.

Meanwhile gnomes are hodgepodged into their role of "like halflings but with random subrace-determined magic". Which is why halflings are more popular in every class except the ones where the random magic hits the class on the nail and, by the narrowest margin, warlocks.

Halflings have an identity. Gnomes have gimmicks.

There are reasons elves get complained about.

They already can... Burrowing mammals. But once more this is a gimmick.

It has always only been burrowing mammals.

Just halflings with a completely different gimmick from being able to talk to animals. And this is why gnomes as a race in 5e are a failure. The ones who play Dr Doolittle are basically entirely unrelated to the fiddlers.

If you wanted a coherent theme between the two rather than to make a grab bag of unrelated tropes and pass it off as a race you'd give the rock/tinker gnomes psychometry and as such able to listen to objects. Forest gnomes communicate with animals, rock gnomes with objects. Very different uses coming from the same place.

And not a thing of value is lost. Because gnomes are not a race, they are tropes shoehorned into a race that is only there because it has been there from the start and changes every edition from one unpopular choice to another, never really finding an identity between gnomes and dwarves.

We gain less space taken up and the ability to include e.g. goblins. What do we gain by keeping them? What do they actually do that halflings or goblins don't?

And are hostile. Which is a different experience to the newbie PC hesitant halfling. I agree both races have a lot more going on than gnomes do however.

Comfortable and poor is more like it. Stout Farmers are definitely rural - but Stout Burgomeisters are urban

Indeed. They have substance. They leave pure gimmickry to the gnomes. Of course you could mix the two by making gnomes halfling subraces.

I'd rather ditch subraces other than in rare cases (like Dragonborn and genasi). But if we try to remove gnome subraces what's left? Which wins? Neither is necessary to the other or follows from the core concept. They are just gimmicks.

Is there really much support to keep the game's least popular core race?

Which would you prefer? No gnomes or a halfling subrace?

And there's nothing to lose here. This is the problem.

Lol. No.

Non PHB races. Gnomes only stay in the PHB through inertia.

Above gnomes.

Gnomes have a leg up thanks to being in the PHB and still are unwanted.

No. Just drop them from the PHB.

you are clearly wrong on halflings as they survive off being mechanically busted and cottegecore vibes.

 

[thom_likes_gaming]

To "questions" like that my instinctive response is: 'But so they really...?'

I mean, sure, there's people that exclaim a certain dislike or even hate for gnomes (on the internet). Does that make them "the people"? I personally know exactly 0 people who hate gnomes (out of a couple dozen RP players I interact face to face), or that hate any race (or class) at all.

So, tldr; the premise of the original post seems flawed.

 

[Bolares]

To "questions" like that my instinctive response is: 'But so they really...?'

I mean, sure, there's people that exclaim a certain dislike or even hate for gnomes (on the internet). Does that make them "the people"? I personally know exactly 0 people who hate gnomes (out of a couple dozen RP players I interact face to face), or that hate any race (or class) at all.

So, tldr; the premise of the original post seems flawed.

But the OP wasn't asking about "the people".... The question was about personal opinion of people in this forum and not the general consensus on the subject.

 

[Mind of tempest]

anyone got an idea of the traits gnomes already have?

 

[Chaosmancer]

I knew reading this thread would be a mistake, but seeing so many times the idea that "Rock Gnomes are a joke" I just have to make a commentary

This?

This is a mechanical orchestra meant to play songs for the ruler of a nation while he was on a party boat. This was built by Al-Jazari, referred to as the "Father of Robotics" because he was building robots.

In the 1200's!

Is that a joke to people? Is the Prague Astronomical Clock built in 1410 a joke?

Yes, Dragonlance made them stupid and everything blow up and it was played for laughs, because Science is stupid. But nothing, NOTHING in 5e is geared towards making Rock Gnomes a joke. And it is incredibly irritating to see people continually bring it up like it is a fact that these can't be taken seriously, because somehow building complex machinery that has lasted for centuries is worthy or mockery.

 

[CleverNickName]

Hey, be fair. I'm not mocking gnomes because of Al-Jazari, or because of the Prague Astronomical Clock. I mock them because they're clearly just dwarves in silly hats.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

As a forever DM, gnomes are one of my favorite NPC races, and there are way too few gnome PC's in my campaigns. Thats all.

 

[Chaosmancer]

anyone got an idea of the traits gnomes already have?

One of the first things I go to with my gnomes is the Gnome Cunning feat. Something about gnomes gives them advantage against mind-altering magic of all types. I took this and their natural intellect and phrased it as gnomes having a complex, clockwork or crystalline mind. Kind of like those people with eidetic memories or who can just do calculus in their heads. Gnomes just see the world in terms of order, numbers, and movement.

The brightness and joy of gnomes is another aspect. I actually rewrote a few things to make the Material plane Gnomish heaven. The world is beautiful and full of joy. This isn't like the halflings who lay back in their homes and watch the sunset, the gnomes aren't content to sit still, they want to go out and see the beauty of the world.

Part of this, I think, is because the world is so complex that despite the fact they are constantly digging into it, constantly observing it, there is always more and it always surprises them. That's why I think they like pranks, because it is shock and surprise, something unexpected AGAIN in this infinitely variable world that never seems to stop or end, but constantly turns with more and more to explore.

If the elves embody the noble. Gnomes embody scientists like Michio Kaku, who is constantly delighted by the world.

How does this work with Forest Gnomes? Easily. They are naturalists, biologists, instead of being interested in physics, they are looking into zoology and other biological processes.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I don't think rock gnomes need to be a joke, but I don't think being an engineer is a sensible defining characteristic for a species or a subspecies. An engineer is a profession, and it is represented in the game by a class called artificer. We are not in the red box era anymore, race and class are separate things!

 

[CleverNickName]

I don't think rock gnomes need to be a joke, but I don't think being an engineer is a sensible defining characteristic for a species or a subspecies. An engineer is a profession, and it is represented in the game by a class called artificer. We are not in the red box era anymore, race and class are separate things!

This is also why I think "racial" ASIs are a bad idea, and should be permanently moved to Class and Background.

But that's a whole other thread.