What is and isn't Space Opera?

[Tonguez]

As have soap operas. The folks who wrote that description likely never saw ghosts, aliens, or demonic possession in their soap operas. (No, I don't watch them, but I hear things.)

Dark Shadows was introduced 1966, so those things are long established in soap opera tropes.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

Bickering about exact definitions of genres and subgenres is an incredibly stupid waste of time. But I'll bite

Imho space opera has to be epic and grandiose in scale, together with some kind of accelerated protagonist character growth, and other definable stuff.

But in my own head, I define space opera more from a feeling I get when I read or watch the material, and doing academic genre deconstruction takes away most of the joy. Doc Smiths Lensman books, Star Wars and most Peter F Hamilton stuff are space opera. Star Trek is sci-fi. The Expanse would have been sci-fi, but the protomolecule turn it into space opera. Asimovs Foundation books fulfill the criteria for space opera on paper, but feels very much like sci-fi. And so on.

And that's how I like it to be when I read stuff - letting the genre define itself during the reading journey. Or better yet, be amazed over clever cross genre writing giving birth to new stuff, such as when first reading Stross' The Atrocity Archives back in the day, or when I felt Gibsons Neuromancer get all the right juices flowing as a teen.

 

[Ryujin]

Dark Shadows was introduced 1966, so those things are long established in soap opera tropes.

Sure, except that "Dark Shadows" was specifically a horror soap. What I'm talking about are main stream soaps.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Sure, except that "Dark Shadows" was specifically a horror soap. What I'm talking about are main stream soaps.

I think the supernatural and alien stuff started showing up on soaps in the 80's, or maybe late 70's? And aliens showed up on a primetime soap that was a spinoff of Dynasty. And then, of course. there was Baywatch Nights. shudder

 

[Tonguez]

I think the supernatural and alien stuff started showing up on soaps in the 80's, or maybe late 70's? And aliens showed up on a primetime soap that was a spinoff of Dynasty. And then, of course. there was Baywatch Nights. shudder

Yeah 80s had aliens, ghost and demon possession

 

[Paul Farquhar]

letting the genre define itself during the reading journey.

I think this is an important point. Trying to have hard rules about what is an is not a certain genre is a straightjacket. Writing should be enjoyed for what it is, not which boxes it ticks.

 

[Yora]

But then, what are genres?

 

[Umbran]

Sure. And the particular comment was on the quality of the writing being flat. To which you seem to be saying "all writing was flat in those days".

This is a typical example of overstating. It tends to polarize discussions.

What I said was, " I think most of us would find much of the stuff of the time to be similarly dry." (emphasis added)

The word "all" does not appear, and is not implied. I purposely and explicitly put nuance in what I wrote, and you have chosen to ignore it, and outright removed it in restating my position. The effect is you arguing against a strawman.

So, maybe stop doing that, please.

 

[Umbran]

But then, what are genres?

Vague categories.

 

[Blue]

A few years back we were discussing as a group what to run next and I modified someone's SF with Space Opera.

For me, Space Opera is about the people. Not in just that the story is about the people, but in a Great Man" theory - individual people are what propels the galaxy in whatever direction. Stopping The Emperor will blunt the Empire sort of thing.

And of course that "opera" shares with "soap opera" - it's a melodrama, not a procedural type of game. Relationships matter.