D&D General Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?

[Arilyn]

And in D&D wizards have to track down new spells, roll to learn them and pay money for expensive inks to write them down in their books. In 5e, however, one new spell appears in their book without any of these costs or effort every time they attain a new level. It's just assumed every wizard has managed to find at least one spell (of the player's choice) per level and the costs are handwaved. This seems pretty similar to the BitD inventory. Typical RPG conventions.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

All RPGs involve authorship. There's a point in time when something or other is not part of the shared fiction, and then there's a subsequent point when it is.

The inventory system in BitD isn't special in this respect.

I'm not @Ovinomancer, but I have some thoughts about this.

I think anyone who criticises a RPG because it involves authorship hasn't thought very hard about what happens during their own play.

For instance, in D&D, when the PCs "go shopping" all sorts of stuff "pops into existence" without having been pre-established - iron spikes, lengths of rope, weapons, etc - and the players write it down on their equipment lists.

So someone criticising BitD because players are allowed to write stuff down on their equipment list seems to be making a pretty silly point.

It may be a silly point to you, but it would bother me greatly. I'm sure there are some things in other games that bother you that I'd be fine with.

I've not heard one person say anything to the effect of "if you don't like that part of the game, just replace it with something you're more comfortable with" or some such. Instead of meeting me half way or provide encouragement, I get people jumping on me when I personally don't like one (probably small) aspect of one game in a long list of games that have been grouped together based on one quality of those games.

Any ttrpg that doesn't allow tweaking for the table/group is definitely not for me, Story Now or no.

Also, a criticism of a thing people enjoy, is not a criticism of the people who enjoy that thing. A lot of toxic divide in the world is based on people not realizing that. I really don't like country music, but my mother loves it. That doesn't mean I hate my mom. And not all mentions of something rubbing me the wrong way is necessarily a criticism anyway.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

And in D&D wizards have to track down new spells, roll to learn them and pay money for expensive inks to write them down in their books. In 5e, however, one new spell appears in their book without any of these costs or effort every time they attain a new level. It's just assumed every wizard has managed to find at least one spell (of the player's choice) per level and the costs are handwaved. This seems pretty similar to the BitD inventory. Typical RPG conventions.

Good point, and I would grudgingly accept it as a player. As a DM however I'd incorporate in the downtime between adventures at least an offhand mention that some magical study took place before the level up. I'm not really a fan of leveling up mid-adventure either.

 

[Ovinomancer]

It may be a silly point to you, but it would bother me greatly. I'm sure there are some things in other games that bother you that I'd be fine with.

I've not heard one person say anything to the effect of "if you don't like that part of the game, just replace it with something you're more comfortable with" or some such. Instead of meeting me half way or provide encouragement, I get people jumping on me when I personally don't like one (probably small) aspect of one game in a long list of games that have been grouped together based on one quality of those games.

Any ttrpg that doesn't allow tweaking for the table/group is definitely not for me, Story Now or no.

Also, a criticism of a thing people enjoy, is not a criticism of the people who enjoy that thing. A lot of toxic divide in the world is based on people not realizing that. I really don't like country music, but my mother loves it. That doesn't mean I hate my mom. And not all mentions of something rubbing me the wrong way is necessarily a criticism anyway.

No one has jumped on you for disliking anything. Dislike away. That's not why you get pushback.

For me, you are getting pushback because you are 1) making leaps to incorrect assumptions and 2) using insulting terms to dismiss play, largely based on your incorrect assumptions. There's a distant 3) which is what @pemerton suggests.

 

[pemerton]

It may be a silly point to you, but it would bother me greatly.

What would bother you? That authorship takes place?

I've not heard one person say anything to the effect of "if you don't like that part of the game, just replace it with something you're more comfortable with" or some such. Instead of meeting me half way or provide encouragement, I get people jumping on me when I personally don't like one (probably small) aspect of one game in a long list of games that have been grouped together based on one quality of those games.

Any ttrpg that doesn't allow tweaking for the table/group is definitely not for me, Story Now or no.

Meeting you half-way in respect of what? Are you playing, or thinking of playing, BitD? Have you read the rules?

 

[Ovinomancer]

Good point, and I would grudgingly accept it as a player. As a DM however I'd incorporate in the downtime between adventures at least an offhand mention that some magical study took place before the level up. I'm not really a fan of leveling up mid-adventure either.

That's ironic. Apparently, you should love the loadout system in Blades in the Dark. It has even more heavily flavored justification, and tighter restrictions, than what you've put above.

 

[FrogReaver]

Nope. My complaining about obviously insulting statements doesn't mean I have to draw you a line.

That's fine. You don't have to do anything. From my perspective I've seen no obviously insulting statements. Instead, I've seen benign statements that are taken as insults.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's ironic. Apparently, you should love the loadout system in Blades in the Dark. It has even more heavily flavored justification, and tighter restrictions, than what you've put above.

You don't think its rude if, in response to someone talking about a game element that bothers them, you tell them they shouldn't be bothered by it? Telling someone their opinions are invalid isn't exactly best discourse.

 

[pemerton]

That's fine. You don't have to do anything. From my perspective I've seen no obviously insulting statements. Instead, I've seen benign statements that are taken as insults.

Why is a length of rope being written on an equipment list while the PC's are playing out "downtime" not "popping into existence", but writing the same thing down during a heist is?

In both cases, fiction is being authored and recorded. In both cases we know where and how the PC came by the rope. In neither case is their any retconning.

 

[pemerton]

You don't think its rude if, in response to someone talking about a game element that bothers them, you tell them they shouldn't be bothered by it? Telling someone their opinions are invalid isn't exactly best discourse.

I think @Ovinomancer is commenting on the ostensible reasons that are being advanced. And is pointing out that they appear to make no sense - because if they were taken seriously, then they would support different preference rankings from those @RhaezDaevan is evincing.