D&D 5E Toxicity in the Fandom

[Sacrosanct]

So this just happened, and illustrates the problem with toxic fandom more than I could ever put in words. SMH....

 

[Vaalingrade]

Let's not forget that troll culture is also a thing.

Making up stuff to get fans angry so you can high five your bros has been a simmering social ill since at least the turn of the century. We all laugh when it happens to Morbius because no one likes Morbius, but it happens in every fandom.

Sometimes by the actual creators, different from making a decision the fans don't like; just straight up mocking the fandom and works they've derived things from.

 

[payn]

Let's not forget that troll culture is also a thing.

Making up stuff to get fans angry so you can high five your bros has been a simmering social ill since at least the turn of the century. We all laugh when it happens to Morbius because no one likes Morbius, but it happens in every fandom.

Sometimes by the actual creators, different from making a decision the fans don't like; just straight up mocking the fandom and works they've derived things from.

Social media is really just access to the worlds biggest sh#$ house wall.

 

[Manbearcat]

While I agree about the first part, as I've noted before, its entirely possible for some people to encounter problems in the field (and sometimes frequently) that other people never see. The inability of people to believe the opposite situation doesn't exist does most discussions no favors. It often turns into one or both deciding the other is being either blind to reality or disingenuous, and no discussion is helped by either of those positions.

Oh I’m sure there are terrible players out there. There can be no doubt.

What I’m getting at is folks who are constantly running up against it (look around here…there are folks that have little on offer save for lament…after lament…after lament)? Might want to do a little personal inventory/house-keeping! Our nerd culture clearly has an abundance of bullies and misanthropes…but it’s not THAT pervasive.

Its kind of like some twisted version of the Poker saying “if you sit down at a table for an hour and you can’t spot the sucker…well…you are the sucker.”

There are plenty of ways to perpetuate a positive micro-culture in your own “gaming house” (no matter if you’re a player or a GM). If someone is constantly having trouble, might help to focus on that rather than ritually lamenting how awful all your players are.

And if your gaming sucks and you think your players are playing crappy all the time? Maybe focus on your own GMing misplays and clean that up (I’ve been GMing forever and I’m still annoyed with personal misplays after every session)?

 

[Scribe]

Social media is really just access to the worlds biggest sh#$ house wall.

That's perfect LOL.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Oh I’m sure there are terrible players out there. There can be no doubt.

No, I still don't think you are quite getting it. Its entirely possible for people to encounter things all the time other people rare or never see. That can happen for any number of reasons, some just because probability is going to sometimes throw extreme results.

What I’m getting at is folks who are constantly running up against it (look around here…there are folks that have little on offer save for lament…after lament…after lament)? Might want to do a little personal inventory/house-keeping! Our nerd culture clearly has an abundance of bullies and misanthropes…but it’s not THAT pervasive.

More accurately, its not that persuasive in your experience. (Not that the idea that people who constantly hit things that other people don't shouldn't look and see if there's some problem at their end, but sometimes there really isn't.)

Edit: Just to make it clear, I'm not saying other things can't be in play; two that easily come to mind are scar tissue (which GMs might think they're immune to but aren't) making them project on current players things that past players did, and GMs confusing players who just happen to want different things than the GM is offering (and maybe the other players want) with misbehavior.

But I've absolutely seen people who someone seem to be magnets for problem people as players, and nothing I knew about them as people or GMs suggested anything they were doing to produce it. It was just a combination of limited options in player pool and bad luck.

 

[OB1]

I (try) to follow three rules on social media that lead to a decent experience for me.

1. I (try) to only talk about things I like. Talking about things I dislike is for those who I count as friends.
2. I don't engage with strangers about what they hate. I'm not going to change a stranger's mind, I'm just going to give them attention.
3. Online debates are only good for understanding others and my own point of view. It can broaden my own mind, and I don't worry if it broadens someone else's, because that's not up to me. And I certainly don't expect it to change anything but myself.

So, for example, I'm happy to go on and on about how great Luke's storyline was in TLJ, but unless you know me well, I won't have much to say about the rest of the Disney Star Wars product.

Now that may make me come across as 'toxically-positive', because you mostly only see me talking about my love of things that I enjoy, and if that's the case, so be it.

 

[Manbearcat]

No, I still don't think you are quite getting it. Its entirely possible for people to encounter things all the time other people rare or never see. That can happen for any number of reasons, some just because probability is going to sometimes throw extreme results.



More accurately, its not that persuasive in your experience. (Not that the idea that people who constantly hit things that other people don't shouldn't look and see if there's some problem at their end, but sometimes there really isn't.)

Edit: Just to make it clear, I'm not saying other things can't be in play; two that easily come to mind are scar tissue (which GMs might think they're immune to but aren't) making them project on current players things that past players did, and GMs confusing players who just happen to want different things than the GM is offering (and maybe the other players want) with misbehavior.

But I've absolutely seen people who someone seem to be magnets for problem people as players, and nothing I knew about them as people or GMs suggested anything they were doing to produce it. It was just a combination of limited options in player pool and bad luck.

No, I get it.

Everything I wrote still stands.

If you’re at the nexus of an endless deluge of negativity (in gaming or elsewhere), it’s statistically rather probable that you have something to do with it (even if it’s merely the company or micro-culture you tend to gravitate toward). Perhaps inventory that.

Just like in physical systems, in social systems, rote or ritualized positivity and negativity are both infectious and amplify existing internal and external paradigms.

If you’re a freakishly improbable statistical outlier and just surrounded by terrible people and terrible gaming…then…I don’t know? Quit gaming and causing yourself self-harm? Find something more healthy to do until you can move away from the weird black hole of terrible people you’re gravitationally captured by. Or…try that internet thing! Keep trying it until you find a few trustworthy, kind, and capable players! Take heart! They are out there!

 

[MGibster]

I look at it this way. If you can explain to me why you like something without referencing anything negative about anything else? Then you're golden. IOW, if you like X because you like X, then fantastic. However, if you're telling me you like X because it's not Y? Then nope. Being Not Y is never a good enough reason.

I remember John Travolta describing Battlefield Earth as "Star Wars, but cooler." When describing a role playing game, I very often compare it to D&D because most people have experience with it. But I make sure I don't denigrate D&D and usually emphasize that I enjoy playing it myself. Don't tell me that other game is crummy, tell me why your game is good.

 

[payn]

I remember John Travolta describing Battlefield Earth as "Star Wars, but cooler." When describing a role playing game, I very often compare it to D&D because most people have experience with it. But I make sure I don't denigrate D&D and usually emphasize that I enjoy playing it myself. Don't tell me that other game is crummy, tell me why your game is good.

This reminds me of a conversation I had the other day with a friend. I told him this new cat is laying down some great music tracks. "It's like Bruce Springsteen; only I want to listen to it!" I realized that joke works well with my friend because he knows me. It probably would translate poorly online.