Spelljammer Dark Sun confirmed? Or, the mysterious case of the dissappearing Spelljammer article...

[Parmandur]

That argument (and most of your arguments) boils down to nothing in the books mattering at all. If you believe that, why are you even here? I really don't understand.

So, I think you two are looking at D&D books in two different ways: you look at them as stories with their own integrity, while @DEFCON 1 looks at them like cookbooks full of suggestions to be considered and ignored as desired while cooking: recipe calls for too little garlic and puts in Nutmeg for some reason? Ignore the Nutmeg, add more garlic. What's served at the table is what matters, not the suggestions on the page that may or may not fit the tastes of the audience.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

That the first full name drop, however we had already deduced this was happening because...

1.) Several previews included some Dark Sun specific Monsters, doesnsay too much hy itself though

2.) We know the Adventure is a world hopping campaign, visiting a dozen distinct worlds. Need somewhere to go.

3.) Ray Winninger has said thst there would be two full Classic Setting products this year (Spelljammer and DragonLance, as it turns out), and a Classic Setting getting a "cameo," which seemed odd until we found out there was a Sepelljammer Adventure.

All told, I fully expect one of the chapters in the Spelljammer campaign to set down on Athas.

That makes sense.

 

[Charlaquin]

So, I think you two are looking at D&D books in two different ways: you look at them as stories with their own integrity, while @DEFCON 1 looks at them like cookbooks full of suggestions to be considered and ignored as desired while cooking: recipe calls for too little garlic and puts in Nutmeg for some reason? Ignore the Nutmeg, add more garlic. What's served at the table is what matters, not the suggestions on the page that may or may not fit the tastes of the audience.

Which works, up to a point. But there does come a point where you’ve changed so much from the recipe that cookbook isn’t actually helping you any more.

It also doesn’t work very well if there’s a metaplot. I’m not sure how to fit that into the cookbook analogy, but if you make changes to a setting with a metaplot, and then the metaplot advances in a direction that doesn’t mesh with your changes, you reach that point where the book is no longer helpful to you much faster. Which is I think part of why metaplots went out of fashion after cWoD’s ended (originally).

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

They are. They are two things you won't be paying attention to in your own home game. It doesn't matter what appears in either... you're going to do whatever it is that you want in yours.

Whatever appears in the book will DEFINITELY affect what appears in my game. I want my game to be as official as possible. I've always felt that part of my enjoyment of D&D comes from being part of the larger D&D community. Some of my least favorite interactions with other players have come from realizing that we have absolutely no common ground. I'd meet people at games days or conventions or whatever and I'd say "You like Forgotten Realms too? Awesome. I'm running a game set in Icewind Dale." and they'd reply with something like "Icewind Dale doesn't exist in my game. the Realms were conquered by the Decepticons from Transformers when they came thought a portal 200 years ago. The PCs are part of a a rebellion being led by the Thundercats whose ship crash landed there 20 years later." and I'd think "Wow...we really have nothing in common. We can't discuss our games because it would require hours of providing context before we even can arrive at a common ground."

So, if the new books change the world, I'll likely use whatever is in there...or dislike it enough that I won't play any games in Dark Sun. But I'm unlikely to change it. There's too many good worlds out there that I like the lore of the play one I don't. Or to spend the time and energy to fix a broken one.

 

[grimslade]

So let's boil down Athas to the bare bones of the setting. Athas is a world in its death throes. Magic is fueled by life energy and is feared and despised by the populace. There are City-States ruled by powerful magic wielders who war with each other. There is a limited amount of metal.
The abuse of magic has turned much of the planet into a lifeless desert. Water is scarce.
I think everyone agrees with those points of being mandatory for Dark Sun. Everything else gets contentious.

Psionics- There is a greater presence of 'psionic' abilities on Athas. Maybe everything and everyone has at least one latent psionic ability. (Wild talent) Maybe psionic subclasses are more prominent in NPCs to show this. WotC will not be developing psionics further in this edition to give a viable counter system to magic. Maybe new subclasses. I am disappointed, but there is no consensus on psionics. It only makes people grumpy.

Slavery- I think slavery will make it in. There was never a positive spin put on slavery. It was always an evil of the setting. Easy way to signal the villains. Lots of fodder for adventure.

Races- We will see where Dragonlance goes, but I think there will be a restriction of races. Custom Lineages take away a lot of the sting of being denied access to certain races. There will be a side panel on How to play a restricted race in Athas. Gnomes are a different tribe of halflings. Dragonborn are Dray. Tieflings are abominations of the Dragon's influence. I hope WotC is ready to differentiate its settings and let them feel alien to regular permissive worlds. Muls are in and Half-giants are goliath again, like 4E.

City-States- I really enjoyed learning about all the mini-settings in Radiant Citadel. They felt vibrant and fresh. Let's have some fresh voices focusing on Sorcerer Kings and their city-states so they can feel individual and not feel like a bunch of reskinned ancient empires crammed together.

I don't know just thoughts bubbling in my mind about Dark Sun. I am willing to let the lore go. I just want to play in some John Carter Spartacus beyond Thunderdome in some Brom paintings again. I have my original box set. I can homebrew and shoehorn 5E into it. I want to see if WotC can push their game beyond FR.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Slavery- I think slavery will make it in. There was never a positive spin put on slavery. It was always an evil of the setting. Easy way to signal the villains. Lots of fodder for adventure.

I wouldn't be too sure. Attitudes are changing. I've seen a lot of posts on social media, message boards and blogs that all say that slavery should just not be depicted in ANY form (good or bad) and that there are "better stories" without having to rely on it as a crutch since its existence in the game prevents certain people from playing D&D at all because the mention of it is too stressful for them. That makes having it as a topic gatekeeping.

On the other hand, it has shown up as a topic in Adventurer's League adventures as long as a proper Trigger Warning gets put on the front page of the adventure. It is possible that it is so tied to Dark Sun that they will be willing to put a warning on the entire setting.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Psionics- There is a greater presence of 'psionic' abilities on Athas. Maybe everything and everyone has at least one latent psionic ability. (Wild talent) Maybe psionic subclasses are more prominent in NPCs to show this. WotC will not be developing psionics further in this edition to give a viable counter system to magic. Maybe new subclasses. I am disappointed, but there is no consensus on psionics. It only makes people grumpy.

without psionics, it might as well be a different setting thus a full psionic caster is needed at minimum past that the subclasses should do well.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I wouldn't be too sure. Attitudes are changing. I've seen a lot of posts on social media, message boards and blogs that all say that slavery should just not be depicted in ANY form (good or bad) and that there are "better stories" without having to rely on it as a crutch since its existence in the game prevents certain people from playing D&D at all because the mention of it is too stressful for them. That makes having it as a topic gatekeeping.

On the other hand, it has shown up as a topic in Adventurer's League adventures as long as a proper Trigger Warning gets put on the front page of the adventure. It is possible that it is so tied to Dark Sun that they will be willing to put a warning on the entire setting.

See, now this would be a real problem. A topic that been a significant aspect of both many adventures and real-world history is proposed to be banned, safety tools or no, because some people have a serious problem with it? This is essentially saying that spiders shouldn't be in D&D because some gamers have ararchnophobia. You adjudicate this stuff at the table, and choose not to use things that make your players uncomfortable. When I run a game for my wife, for example, I don't use spiders. You as a group make these decisions. You don't let the company that publishes the game make them for you.

 

[Yaarel]

Ancient slavery is more like credit-card debt or student loans.

People are doing labor as a method of paying off a financial debt.

Things get truly ugly when slaves are actually captives taken during a war. Life for them is hopeless, violent, and unjust.

But the institution of slavery itself is roughly equivalent to indentured servants.

 

[Yaarel]

I wouldn't be too sure. Attitudes are changing. I've seen a lot of posts on social media, message boards and blogs that all say that slavery should just not be depicted in ANY form (good or bad) and that there are "better stories" without having to rely on it as a crutch since its existence in the game prevents certain people from playing D&D at all because the mention of it is too stressful for them. That makes having it as a topic gatekeeping.

I kinda agree.

Few players want to roleplay the slavers. Few players want to roleplay the slaves.

The result is a dehumanizing racist stereotype of whichever groups become the slavers or the slaves.