D&D 5E Have you ever seen these weapons used regularly by PC's in a D&D 5e game?

[Neonchameleon]

I don't think d6 Rapiers would do much to really affect Dex builds. You're not losing a ton of damage, and if you're Dex based, you weren't really worried about optimizing damage anyways?

The problem is just how much you can keep up. A sword & board rapier keeps up with a longsword and shield - meaning that if sword & board and you aren't going PAM dex builds absolutely keep up.

they are used because you cannot get any better, that does not mean it is good enough.

Nor does it mean it's not good enough.

if you cut rapier to d6, then you need to cut shortsword/scimitar to d4 as they have both light and finesse.
And dagger to d2(lol)

No you don't. Something being ahead of the curve is much more of a problem than something being behind.

then why have it? for a name placeholder?

Because tridents are cool.

I wish that d4 dies also, or atleast be on smallest amount of weapons.

The d4 is a platonic solid and sold in standard dice sets. It's unlikely to be removed.

 

[James Gasik]

See I don't see longsword/shield vs. rapier/shield as a problem. The longsword guy probably has 1 better AC. Sure, Dexterity has more advantages than Strength, but Strength builds can use big mean weapons and really dish out tons of damage.

Now if they ever add a heavy finesse weapon to the game, like the Elven Courtblade from 3e or Pathfinder's Elven Curve-Blade, that's when I will totally agree balance has gone out the window....but that seems pretty unlikely. Eight years in, and has a single weapon been added to the game?

 

[Voadam]

The greatclub isn't a PC weapon. It's intended for e.g. ogres.

I played in a 3.5 game where a half-orc barbarian went all in on being a low int barbaric bruiser and used one. It was a little hit on damage, but narratively fantastic and he still fit his role mechanically as the big bruiser of the group.

Clubs and greatclubs also have a PC role of when you are escaping being a slave/prisoner and need to come up with improvised weapons.

 

[Neonchameleon]

See I don't see longsword/shield vs. rapier/shield as a problem. The longsword guy probably has 1 better AC. Sure, Dexterity has more advantages than Strength, but Strength builds can use big mean weapons and really dish out tons of damage.

1 point of AC vs:

• No disadvantage on Stealth
• A better stealth skill
• A better initiative
• Better overall saving throws (Dex > Str)
• Better general skills
• Better ranged attacks

All for one point of AC.

And the point is that if you're running Sword & Board you aren't using "big mean weapons" that "really dish out tons of damage". You're using a weapon that does no more damage than the rapier wielder and their sword and shield.

 

[James Gasik]

1 point of AC vs:

• No disadvantage on Stealth
• A better stealth skill
• A better initiative
• Better overall saving throws (Dex > Str)
• Better general skills
• Better ranged attacks

All for one point of AC.

And the point is that if you're running Sword & Board you aren't using "big mean weapons" that "really dish out tons of damage". You're using a weapon that does no more damage than the rapier wielder and their sword and shield.

Well that's what I mean. Sword and Board isn't a strength of, well, Strength. Heavy weapons is. Just as heavy weapons are a weakness of Dexterity.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Well that's what I mean. Sword and Board isn't a strength of, well, Strength. Heavy weapons is. Just as heavy weapons are a weakness of Dexterity.

And my point is that Sword & Board should be a strength of strength. Especially if you use your shield properly to bully your opponent. We agree it isn't -but I think this is a mistake. (And it's something that makes 5e different to literally every other edition).

 

[James Gasik]

And my point is that Sword & Board should be a strength of strength. Especially if you use your shield properly to bully your opponent. We agree it isn't -but I think this is a mistake. (And it's something that makes 5e different to literally every other edition).

Not every other edition, but I understand why you might not count 4e, which let just about attribute steal Strength's thunder.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

My EK gladiator used a trident (and a fake leg) as his bonded weapons for a while, but we raised trident damage to d8 one handed.

He eventually swapped the fake leg for a ballista he'd harpoon flying creatures. Siege weapons are a lot more useful when you can summon them as a bonus action.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Not every other edition, but I understand why you might not count 4e, which let just about attribute steal Strength's thunder.

Oh, I definitely count 4e. But when 4e did something it almost always did it with thought and intent. And sword and board was very much a strength based thing in 4e

Off the top of my head there were five defenders pre-Essentials; Fighter, Warden, Paladin, Battlemind, and Swordmage. The first two were strength based and commonly seen with shields. The third was half strength based (and again normally seen with shields), and the fourth was con based (and again shielded). The fifth, the Swordmage did not use shields. Post-Essentials was the Knight (str based, shielded), the Cavalier (Str based, Shielded) and the Berserker (semi-defender, Str based).

The other classes I recall using shields a lot were leaders (Warlord, Str Cleric, Runepriest, Ardent, some bards, Warpriests from Essentials). The first three were Str based.

By contrast the Dex characters were almost all strikers and almost never used shields. Notably the Rogue, the Archery Ranger, the Monk, the Assassin, the Executioner, the Thief, the Scout, and the Hunter.

Sword and Board was a strength of strength in 4e and not something dexterity builds were known for. When I said every edition I meant every edition.

 

[James Gasik]

Oh, I definitely count 4e. But when 4e did something it almost always did it with thought and intent. And sword and board was very much a strength based thing in 4e

Off the top of my head there were five defenders pre-Essentials; Fighter, Warden, Paladin, Battlemind, and Swordmage. The first two were strength based and commonly seen with shields. The third was half strength based (and again normally seen with shields), and the fourth was con based (and again shielded). The fifth, the Swordmage did not use shields. Post-Essentials was the Knight (str based, shielded), the Cavalier (Str based, Shielded) and the Berserker (semi-defender, Str based).

The other classes I recall using shields a lot were leaders (Warlord, Str Cleric, Runepriest, Ardent, some bards, Warpriests from Essentials). The first three were Str based.

By contrast the Dex characters were almost all strikers and almost never used shields. Notably the Rogue, the Archery Ranger, the Monk, the Assassin, the Executioner, the Thief, the Scout, and the Hunter.

Sword and Board was a strength of strength in 4e and not something dexterity builds were known for. When I said every edition I meant every edition.

Ironically, the reason I thought about other ability scores stealing Strength's thunder in 4e was my Hybrid Blackguard/Assassin who was Dex/Cha based but wore full plate and used a shield.