D&D (2024) Dungeons and Dragons future? Ray Winninger gives a nod to Mike Shea's proposed changes.

[GMforPowergamers]

Yes, I know. (I don't agree with his reasoning, but I acknowledge that it was a deliberate choice.) However:

1) The imbalance being deliberate does not make it any less of an imbalance.
2) Vampiric touch is not only weak compared to fireball, it's weak compared to virtually any other spell of its level. You do more damage with a cantrip, and the cantrips in question can be used at range.

and that is before we account for 'no your caster can't take his action' counterspell, and a 2 level lower 'no your NPC/monster is on the ground laughing and we all get to dog pile it with advantage'

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't know, maybe nothing, if I'd had someone to show me how.

Create a tiefling that didn't have stupid bull horns perhaps?

Ah, I remember that rule well: "A tiefling will not have no horns or different horns"

 

[Paul Farquhar]

oh yes... just like WotC keeps saying teiflings are all red (even if teh 1st pictured is more purple) but I see lots of people say they play blue green red or black ones all the time (I myself have seen at least half a dozen blue, 1 purple and 1 green... but only 3 red)

They don't keep saying it. They just haven't updated the PHB description yet (rumours that may happen in 2024). But that actually says "Their skin tones cover the full range of human coloration, but also include various shades of red. "

But there is a clearly blue tiefling in Rime of the Frostmaiden, so WotC don't pay attention to that fluff.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I agree. I suspect that if 4e had been released more like either SWSE or even 4e Essentials from the get-go, then 4e would have been better received. But the 4e launch, development, and marketing had a lot of issues, to put it mildly.

Absolutely.

What I do find interesting is that I have seen A LOT of love from 5e players and GMs discovering 4e when it comes to the layout, advice, presentation, and readability of the 4e books. I have seen a number of 5e GMs on Twitter recommending that other 5e GMs pick up the 4e DMG for solid GM advice.

Yeah the 4e DMG is excellent.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yes, I know. (I don't agree with his reasoning, but I acknowledge that it was a deliberate choice.) However:

1) The imbalance being deliberate does not make it any less of an imbalance.
2) Vampiric touch is not only weak compared to fireball, it's weak compared to virtually any other spell of its level. You do more damage with a cantrip, and the cantrips in question can be used at range.

It does 3d6 damage, which is comparable to a cantrip, and then you heal for half the damage dealt, and then you can keep it up for up to a minute, effectively gaining a temporary cantrip that heals you while harming an enemy.

It’s solid.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yes, I know. (I don't agree with his reasoning, but I acknowledge that it was a deliberate choice.) However:

1) The imbalance being deliberate does not make it any less of an imbalance.
2) Vampiric touch is not only weak compared to fireball, it's weak compared to virtually any other spell of its level. You do more damage with a cantrip, and the cantrips in question can be used at range.

Vampiric touch is uniquely terrible in 5e because of design choices sacrificing it at the altar of simplicity too. In past Vampiric touch was pretty mediocre when 3rd level slots were a big deal because the effect scaled with caster level & slot progression continued to expand but 5e virtually stops slot progression after 3rd level slots with a continuous slowdown starting in tier one. Worse still the spell only scales by using one of the more limited and far more precious spell slots rather than with caster level gains. To add insult atop all of that injury 5e doesn't even bother to alter the scaling despite the numerous ways it increases the cost of scaling it.

 

[dave2008]

I agree that I hear about unrecognisable games more and more regularly, I have switched my style bits and pieces as we went on about the years... but I just wonder what 4e couldn't do.

I have not found one. I can only guess that @Paul Farquhar tries to stick to the rules more than I do. I can play any style I have tried in 4e, you just have to be flexible.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't know, maybe nothing, if I'd had someone to show me how.

Create a tiefling that didn't have stupid bull horns perhaps?

You could just do that. Nothing in the rules stopped you.

 

[dave2008]

It's way better balanced than 3E and AD&D, but there are still plenty of areas where it falls down and doesn't have to. I mean, compare fireball to vampiric touch. That's a pure, deadweight balance failure. Nothing else would be broken and nothing would be lost if vampiric touch were brought up to snuff.

Well technically fireball needs to be nerfed. Not sure about vampiric touch

 

[dave2008]

what point on the graph is that? (and I don't mean this to be 'lets fight over this' I mean this to be 'if there is a level or way to balance this game I would love to know it')

The intersection is up to interpretation. Different people have different ideas about balance