D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Oofta]

I mean, tbh, the reason a lot of these third parties seem like risks and don't do big numbers is because they don't have the money to get a lot of eyes on their content. When Electrum is selling a thousand copies, and Wizards is regularly selling hundreds of thousands, if not millions of copies, then clearly one publisher has more resources for netting an audience. We don't actually know if "The Complete Book of Hyperbole Argument" would be popular or not, because WotC hasn't done it, and no one else who has done it a way to get the audience WotC does.

Like seriously. The popularity argument just doesn't make any logical sense. I'm pretty sure 5E selling the Tyranny of Dragons back to back with a different cover and slight changes pretty much explains the situation pretty well. There's tons of better written third party adventures than Tyranny of Dragons, but none of them will ever, ever, ever see the numbers ToD does.

We need to abandon the idea that success is the only indicator of quality. I like a lot of what WotC puts out, but they have proven they can put out just about ANYTHING and make huge bank off of it.

That ... has nothing to do with what I said. WOTC has decided that it's not going to push out product just to push out product. Instead they allow and even encourage 3rd parties to publish niche products.

I made no statement whatsoever about quality.

 

[Oofta]

On the subject of quality, I don't see how we can say 5e is not a decent quality product from a business perspective.

If advertising budget and name recognition were all you needed we'd be sipping Crystal Pepsi or New Coke listening to our Zune while driving our Oldsmobile and waving at our buddy on a Segway. Our Google glasses would remind us that we were going to go to the new Ronin IV sequel based on that Keenu Reeves' smash hit 47 Ronin back in 2013.

Name recognition and advertising can get you in the door. To stay relevant and get year after year double digit growth you need a decent product.

 

[Micah Sweet]

On the subject of quality, I don't see how we can say 5e is not a decent quality product from a business perspective.

If advertising budget and name recognition were all you needed we'd be sipping Crystal Pepsi or New Coke listening to our Zune while driving our Oldsmobile and waving at our buddy on a Segway. Our Google glasses would remind us that we were going to go to the new Ronin IV sequel based on that Keenu Reeves' smash hit 47 Ronin back in 2013.

Name recognition and advertising can get you in the door. To stay relevant and get year after year double digit growth you need a decent product.

I don't measure quality from a business perspective.

 

[tetrasodium]

I don't measure quality from a business perspective.

From the business perspective some folks are wanting to judge 5e as a rule set apparently the twinky is the best & most enjoyable cake ever baked.

 

[Oofta]

I don't measure quality from a business perspective.

Which is why I clarified what I meant. On the other hand I believe quality is in the eye of the beholder: does it suit the goal of the user at a reasonable cost.

When this stuff comes up I'm always reminded of wine sommelier. By and large, they're the only ones that can tell the difference between a moderately priced wine and one that costs thousands of dollars.

Most people don't care about game theory, perfect balance, modern game design. All they care about is are they having fun when they sit down at the game table. For millions of people, the answer seems to be yes.

 

[payn]

OMG, are we doing this again?

 

[Vaalingrade]

The necessary and clearly logical biology of goo girls and bipedal turtles.

 

[Minigiant]

On the subject of quality, I don't see how we can say 5e is not a decent quality product from a business perspective.

Sure.

But Decent isn't Good. Every WOTC edition was at least decent. All of them above decent.

However WOTC could sell hundreds of thousands or even millions with "just decent". Plenty of 3e, 4e, and 5e products sold a ton but we're just decent.

Hell the new Spelljammer is getting a solid Meh and selling tons.

 

[Aldarc]

OMG, are we doing this again?

The Oroborous of internet discussion: people never seem to learn their lesson, only repeat their errors.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure.

But Decent isn't Good. Every WOTC edition was at least decent. All of them above decent.

However WOTC could sell hundreds of thousands or even millions with "just decent". Plenty of 3e, 4e, and 5e products sold a ton but we're just decent.

Hell the new Spelljammer is getting a solid Meh and selling tons.

That's the thing. 5e is so popular that WotC no longer has to actually produce quality product to sell tons. They have no motivation to do their best work, because they're popular enough that it won't affect the bottom line.