D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Art Waring]

Really? In our session yesterday the following spells were upcast:

My players dont typically upcast things, just they way these things go i guess...

 

[MGibster]

For some reason, there's a very vocal contingent of D&D players who think that martials being able to do anything more impressive than a real-world body builder breaks suspension of disbelief. Given that this is a game of heroic high fantasy, I cannot wrap my head around this POV.

It's just preference. I have a hard time enjoying a movie like The Kingsman because the action scenes are too cartoony. A lot of people love this kind of thing, and that's fine, but the action is so over-the-top that they cease being human beings to me. It might as well be Roger Rabbit fighting Daffy Duck.

 

[payn]

It's just preference. I have a hard time enjoying a movie like The Kingsman because the action scenes are too cartoony. A lot of people love this kind of thing, and that's fine, but the action is so over-the-top that they cease being human beings to me. It might as well be Roger Rabbit fighting Daffy Duck.

Even the hee haw remix of word up?

 

[DND_Reborn]

My players dont typically upcast things, just they way these things go i guess...

A house-rule which we use allows for maximum dice when upcasting, so that helps. (To be clear, we had a fair amount of upcasting before but it always felt a bit underwhelming and a necessary evil).

The house-rule is if upcasting grants additional dice, you don't roll them, just use the maximum. Like a level 2 Cure Wounds would be d8+8+WIS mod, not 2d8+WIS mod. It isn't OP and it really helps make upcasting feel like a valuable option.

 

[Haplo781]

They did say "the D&D equivalent of someone that swims the English Channel", not literally someone that swam the English Channel. "D&D equivalent" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence, but it's not entirely unaccurate.

So, the D&D equivalent could take on Orcus, if they're high enough level. But that 14 year old girl that swam the English Channel would die to one of Orcus's Zombies long before she got within spitting distance of the Lord of Undeath.

Jesus, Mr. Doesn't Understand Metaphors is still going on about that?

 

[Zubatcarteira]

With the using Orcus as a baseball bat example, he's only Huge so just a 2nd level spell or being a level 3 Rune Knight would allow one to try and grapple him. You can move him at half speed while he's grappled, so dragging him over his smaller minions to crush them doesn't seem too far fetched.

Having a feat that lets you grapple creatures two sizes above you, and maybe some maneuver to use a grappled creature to strike an adjacent target, seems very simple to me. It doesn't have to go full anime, although that could be fine as well.

 

[Maxperson]

They did say "the D&D equivalent of someone that swims the English Channel", not literally someone that swam the English Channel. "D&D equivalent" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence, but it's not entirely unaccurate.

So, the D&D equivalent could take on Orcus, if they're high enough level. But that 14 year old girl that swam the English Channel would die to one of Orcus's Zombies long before she got within spitting distance of the Lord of Undeath.

It's not even close. Swimming the English Channel isn't even remotely has difficult or impressive as taking on orcus solo and turning him into a baseball bat. A few hundred people make that swim every year these days.

The D&D equivalent would at best be something that a few hundred people from one particular setting could do annually. Even the Forgotten Realms, the setting most heavily dripping with powerful people, could probably only field 3 or 4 capable of that, and maybe 0. I'm not sure that even Elminster or the Simbul could do it solo, and they are the most powerful.

 

[Art Waring]

A house-rule which we use allows for maximum dice when upcasting, so that helps. (To be clear, we had a fair amount of upcasting before but it always felt a bit underwhelming and a necessary evil).

The house-rule is if upcasting grants additional dice, you don't roll them, just use the maximum. Like a level 2 Cure Wounds would be d8+8+WIS mod, not 2d8+WIS mod. It isn't OP and it really helps make upcasting feel like a valuable option.

That's pretty neat, I like it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That's pretty neat, I like it.

Yep, it's a golden house-rule for us at this point. Never going back on it.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

As I have made clear a few times, no, they shouldn't be able to either.

Removal of limits and restrictions have lead to one of the most apparent system flaws of 5e.

Well, 5e is the system that this discussion is about, so it is the capabilities of a martial character able to match up to what a current level 20 caster and level 9 spells can do that you are suggesting.

I'm going to be completely honest with you, I just thought it would be kind of funny to make that post.

But if you want a substantial answer, you presented an idea in a public forum. That people will show up to discuss and challenge it is a factor of "when," not "if."

That is entirely fair.
So: You personally have presented your opinion that because you're not a fan of something, others should be denied it even when its existence will not impinge upon yours. On a public forum.
Should we start discussing and challenging that now, or would you care to say anything more in your defence?

Instead of an archwarrior, how about a Warlord (not the class)?

Spoiler: Warlord

View attachment 258573

Sure, it can't run 100 mph, or jump hundreds of feet, or attack 90 times a second, or bend time and space, but it can frighten foes and command allies every round, regenerate hit points, or attack 5 times a round. [/spoiler]

Oh look. A +1 Wisdom save. So a 1 in 5 chance to not get incapacitated or worse by a level 12 wizard.

In this case? Yes.

A Fighter, regardless of level, has no place in that action sequence.

Now, a Fighter with gear provided by a level 20 Artificer? Blessed by a level 20 Cleric? Enhanced by a level 20 Wizard? Inspired by a level 20 Bard?

Yeah, sure, maybe?

No single character should be able to slap around an 'end game' level threat which, to me, Orcus should be.

Is your objection based upon the fact that a single warrior was able to defeat such a large and threatening opponent, or upon the way that the player narrated the final blow?
Would you feel that something like a dragon matching the size of the machine would be large and powerful enough to take it down alone, but a group of human-sized warriors teaming up might be able to defeat it by physical force?