D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Getting the D&D community to agree on whether or not D&D is gonzo high fantasy or gritty low fantasy is like getting a thousand cats to do the same thing.

I propose that it's both. The people that like the low fantasy just should play at low levels and the people that like gonzo high fantasy can play campaigns of all the levels.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

14 year old schoolgirl from Sacramento. How many times do I have to repeat that? You equated swimming the English Channel with being able to turn Orcus into a baseball bat, so unless you were wrong that 14 year old schoolgirl Sacramento could beat Orcus if transported to D&D exactly as she is here in the real world, right?

They did say "the D&D equivalent of someone that swims the English Channel", not literally someone that swam the English Channel. "D&D equivalent" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence, but it's not entirely unaccurate.

So, the D&D equivalent could take on Orcus, if they're high enough level. But that 14 year old girl that swam the English Channel would die to one of Orcus's Zombies long before she got within spitting distance of the Lord of Undeath.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

There is still a world of difference between Hercules and Anime Warrior.

Really? Because Hercules is a demigod that journeyed to the Underworld thrice (returning alive every time, taking Hades's dog Spot with him one time), wrestled Thanatos into submission, was able to hold the entire weight of the sky on his shoulders, killed and skinned an invulnerable lion, and became a god after he died.

. . . What kind of anime have you seen? Because Hercules is pretty comparable to the warriors from the few anime I've seen.

One of the problems (IMO) of 5th Ed is too much magic. Every class or race has it in some form.

Which IMO takes away from those classes that are supposed to be the magic uses.

Same issue I had with 4th Ed. Everyone could heal. Every class had one or more attacks that was “Deal X damage to target and heal X damage to yourself.”

1) There are magical options for every class (and, consequentially race, because any class can have magic). Doesn't mean that you have to pick them or that spellcasters are "watered down" because you can cast a couple cantrips and maybe the equivalent of a 2nd-4th level spell.

2) Not all healing (even "spontaneous healing") has to be "magical". Hit points are an abstraction of physical strength and endurance, will to live, agility, and luck. So, therefore, a nonmagical "inspiring" ability that increases your "will to live" or something like that could be healing. I don't have a problem with every class having some healing ability because hit points aren't just meat points.

As you said though modern pop culture has to bleed in. And them youngsters today love their Dragonballs and Pokemons and One Pieces. . Though I see it more as “Superhero” then “Anime” but that’s just my grumpy old man POV.

So to Be modern and appeal to the new crowd fighters and rogues need to be able to teleport or turn invisible or magically produce weapons or whatever.

Meanwhile I’ll go back to an older ed for a bit until I’ve had enough “normal” then maybe try D&Ds take on the Superhero/Anime Fantasy Genre.

Young people (in general) like playing powerful heroes and don't care much for the pesky bookkeeping that comes along with keeping track of equipment and that kind of stuff. So, games sometimes cater to that preference by making more abstract versions of older game mechanics, where you can magically summon throwing daggers that disappear when they hit, or have you turn invisible as an abstract stealth mechanic, or have you teleport to emulate the "you're moving really fast" mechanics.

 

[Minigiant]

It's simple.
An 18th level wizard is an archmage
So an 18th level fighter should be an archwarrior, an 18th level rouge should be a archthief and an 18th level cleric should be a archpreist.

The D&D community just has to stop weaseling around stating what an archwarrior is

There is a fork in the road. Evil Archmage to the east. Evil Archwarrior to the west. Make traveling to the ends of both roads equally scary.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It's simple.
An 18th level wizard is an archmage
So an 18th level fighter should be an archwarrior, an 18th level rouge should be a archthief and an 18th level cleric should be a archpreist.

The D&D community just has to stop weaseling around stating what an archwarrior is

There is a fork in the road. Evil Archmage to the east. Evil Archwarrior to the west. Make traveling to the ends of both roads equally scary.

Instead of an archwarrior, how about a Warlord (not the class)?

Spoiler: Warlord

Sure, it can't run 100 mph, or jump hundreds of feet, or attack 90 times a second, or bend time and space, but it can frighten foes and command allies every round, regenerate hit points, or attack 5 times a round. [/spoiler]

 

[Minigiant]

Instead of an archwarrior, how about a Warlord (not the class)?

Spoiler: Warlord

View attachment 258573

Sure, it can't run 100 mph, or jump hundreds of feet, or attack 90 times a second, or bend time and space, but it can frighten foes and command allies every round, regenerate hit points, or attack 5 times a round. [/spoiler]

Your warlord has 27HD to the Archmage's 18.

That's the problem.

What is a 18HD warrior that is as scary as an archmage?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Your warlord has 27HD to the Archmage's 18.

That's the problem.

What is a 18HD warrior that is as scary as an archmage?

Because medium creatures use d8s instead of larger HD, so they gave him more of them?

Why does an archmage have 18 d8s instead of d6s?

"Scary" depends a lot on what is going on.

Oh, and it isn't my Warlord, it's WotC's.

 

[Art Waring]

That said, did anybody make good use of the slot up mechanic? I remember playing in a campaign and it was almost never worth powering up. Only time I did it is if I wanted as many castings of the spell as possible in one day.

Counterspells were the only thing I have seen upcasted.

 

[Minigiant]

Because medium creatures use d8s instead of larger HD, so they gave him more of them?

Why does an archmage have 18 d8s instead of d6s?

"Scary" depends a lot on what is going on.

Oh, and it isn't my Warlord, it's WotC's.

I know it's not yours.
My point is that these creature is not of the same "level" as an archmage. So they inflated its HP to make it soak up more resources.

Let's look at the Champon fighter at level 18. It has

• Extra Attack (2)
• Action Surge (2)
• Indomitable (3).
• Superior Improved Critical (2)
• Survivor

The warlord has

• Extra Attack (1)
• no Action Surge
• Indomitable (3)
• No Improved Critical
• 3 Legendary Actions

Now a PC fighter and an NPC Warrior shouldn't be compatible 1 to 1. However if you have to give the NPC warrior 3 legendary actions and 9 HD to get in the same place, the fighter starts sounding like Omniman. "Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power"

And this is with the Warlord being a weaker foe than the Archmage and having almost no means to optimize loadout. A basic 18HD warrior with EA (2), AS (1), Indomitable (2), STR 20, DEX 20, and can Dash as a reaction is scarier than that.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Counterspells were the only thing I have seen upcasted.

Really? In our session yesterday the following spells were upcast:

Bless
Chaos Bolt
Cure Wounds
Invisibility
and I think one or two more...