D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Vaalingrade]

What percent of games stop by level 10 or 12?

If a huge percent, then we aren't taking much away, and can use the saved space to put a lot more classes, archetypes, and races in the book. (Saved pages on spells enough for a Warlord, Gish, and Psion?).

What's even the point of adding new things if they're all going to have to be low fantasy unless they're high magic?

From where I stand it's just reaving everything cool and fun to add more boredom.

 

[Cadence]

What's even the point of adding new things if they're all going to have to be low fantasy unless they're high magic?

From where I stand it's just reaving everything cool and fun to add more boredom.

Back to my question from a few posts up. What percent of games get past level 10 or 12?

If a sizable percent, then it would be a catastrophe to cut the high level things!!!

If not many, and even a lot of those who do go higher find it a slog, then it isn't as big of a loss to axe it from the core book. (And those who wanted it might be better served in a mythic expansion anyway).

Keeping anything merely for the sake of tradition (whether 20 or 30 levels, naughty word martials, or gonzo casters) seems sad. Keeping something because it's tradition and is a net win in terms of fun seems like a.good thing.

 

[MGibster]

But from this thread... I mean the fact that he's shown to show good timing and reflexes counts.

Ha! I wouldn't go that far. I do feel you make a valid point in making sure martial classes keep up with the Joneses that are the magic classes. Perhaps my bigger problem is that high fantasy is falling out of favor with me.

 

[Garthanos]

But that's the whole trouble.

Myth, legends, anime, and superhero comics are the only real genres that lean into post level 10 martial content. Action movies sometimes but you see there is an argument over that in this thread.

So D& martials end up with a lot of Nos and no Yes. However the game with age away from the older fans as the younger ones will say Yes and influence design more and more until they themself are the official D&D designers.

Sure but I am older and better than fine with all those...

 

[Cadence]

Sure but I am older and better than fine with all those...

Do a lot of your games run through the 12-20s in terms of levels? Which of those inspirations show up in them? (Any favorite incidents or characters.you've played to high level retirement?)

 

[Vaalingrade]

Also, can we all appreciate that Arnold himself in his prime was more capable than a current D&D fighter at doing cool stunts and being physically strong?

There are real people in this mundane world who are able to do more physically demanding and impressive stunts. Lots of them. They're not even rare. They're not even famous.

And yet the excuse of preventing D&D Martial classes from doing those same things... is realism.

 

[Celebrim]

At the very least, Conan (the only one I actually know) got to do cool things and demonstrate feats of strength that are too 'cartoony' to be in D&D apparently. I'm sure those other guys also got to do things too without people being mad that they didn't need a glowy thing to make it happen.

That's just it. Conan of the Howard books certainly didn't. Everything he did was within the trope of "peak human athletic ability".

But there are also no PC wizards in Conan. The trouble with Conan is from the books he's like 10th level or something, so if you are looking at Conan for your archetype and aesthetic of "arch-fighter" and you have archmages with 9th level spells, there is a problem.

 

[Cadence]

Also, can we all appreciate that Arnold himself in his prime was more capable than a current D&D fighter at doing cool stunts and being physically strong?

There are real people in this mundane world who are able to do more physically demanding and impressive stunts. Lots of them. They're not even rare. They're not even famous.

And yet the excuse of preventing D&D Martial classes from doing those same things... Is realism.

If I recall correctly from both this thread and the ENWorld poll on what power level D&D martials should have, almost everyone seems good with them getting to at least the Captain America or Black Panther level at least.

So it kind of feels like getting past Arnold, and certainly anyone IRL, a ways isn't a problem for anyone's sense of realism for martials?

Of course.you keep pooping on going to that level (Cap, Black Panther,, Arnold) as low fantasy, so I'm not sure what the point of this latest post was.

 

[Maxperson]

Let's start with one punching various beasts of burden.

I'd easily be okay with a 20 strength fighter doing that. Doesn't even need to be super high level.

 

[Celebrim]

Also, can we all appreciate that Arnold himself in his prime was more capable than a current D&D fighter at doing cool stunts and being physically strong?

No, we absolutely can't. Arnold at this most over the top pales compared to a typical PC fighter. Arnold is usually playing a character that is like 6th to 7th level. His Conan isn't even remotely as tested as the one from the books, and frankly Conan mostly survives the bigger tests in the books by being cunning. I've talked about in other threads lately that what book Conan actually is is an archetypal "Has an 18 in every attribute" character. He's not a suitable model really for any D&D character because he's in the books not part of an ensemble cast really. He can be good at everything - strength, dexterity, constitution, charisma, intelligence - without overshadowing anyone because he's the sole protagonist.