D&D (2024) DM's no longer getting crits on PC's

[FitzTheRuke]

I have to admit, my MAIN desire for 50th Anniversary D&D is that they only change things that make the game better, things that are widely considered faults (like improving the ranger and sorcerer and excising the game's built-in racism) and not "change for changes sake".

I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about how 5e Crits worked (aside from when ya roll low after critting - which this DOESN'T fix.)

So... while I don't mind this change much (I'd have to see monsters with more recharges, though), it doesn't pass my first criteria.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I have to admit, my MAIN desire for 50th Anniversary D&D is that they only change things that make the game better, things that are widely considered faults (like improving the ranger and sorcerer and excising the game's built-in racism) and not "change for changes sake".

I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about how 5e Crits worked (aside from when ya roll low after critting - which this DOESN'T fix.)

So... while I don't mind this change much (I'd have to see monsters with more recharges, though), it doesn't pass my first criteria.

Sadly, I don't think edition change has  ever passed that criteria. The design team inevitably wants to put their own mark on the game.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Sadly, I don't think edition change has  ever passed that criteria. The design team inevitably wants to put their own mark on the game.

No, it never has. I know you have your reservations, but for me, this one feels like it has the most potential to pull that off. (Not perfectly, mind, but more so than at any time in the past).

Honestly, 4e Essentials was the closest (IMO) in the past to pulling it off, and I have friends that insist that "4.5" absolutely "ruined 4e", so YMMV.

We will have to wait and see, in the end.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I’m wondering if rogues should get sneak attack damage on a 20 even if they wouldn’t normally get it (didn’t meet the conditions, or already used it this turn). So no double SA damage, but very occasionally get a bonus one.

 

[Gorck]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I should probably post it here since it pertains to monster crits:

If their main concern was monsters killing level 1 characters, why not just give level 1 characters more HP? Maybe borrow a little from 4e and have characters add their CON score rather than their CON modifier at 1st level, but add their CON modifier to their HD when gaining additional levels.

So a 1st level Fighter with a 16 CON (+3) would start with 26 HP instead of 13 HP, but still gain 1d10+3 at additional levels. Even a 1st level Wizard with a meager 10 CON (+0) would start with 16 HP instead of 6 HP.

 

[Clint_L]

5e is already so safe, though. Even at Level 1. You need some risk to keep the dramatic tension high enough so that the story is exciting and fun. Nerfing critical hits takes away one of the last real risk factors.

This just seems like a solution in search of a problem.

 

[Lanefan]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I should probably post it here since it pertains to monster crits:

If their main concern was monsters killing level 1 characters, why not just give level 1 characters more HP? Maybe borrow a little from 4e and have characters add their CON score rather than their CON modifier at 1st level, but add their CON modifier to their HD when gaining additional levels.

So a 1st level Fighter with a 16 CON (+3) would start with 26 HP instead of 13 HP, but still gain 1d10+3 at additional levels. Even a 1st level Wizard with a meager 10 CON (+0) would start with 16 HP instead of 6 HP.

The knock-on effect here, of course, is to even further widen the already-too-big mechanical gap between a 0th-level (i.e. a commoner) and a 1st-level character; a gap which IMO should be little if any greater than the gap between 1st and 2nd level.

There's no viable solution for this other than some combination of:
--- reduce monster damage and PC hit point values across the board - in other words, rein everything in a bit such that the commoner fits in to the progression again (and as a pleasant side effect this would make commoner hirelings a bit more viable in the field at low level)
--- start play at higher-than-1st level at your table
--- accept as a fact of life that a number - sometimes quite a big number - of low-level characters are going to die in thier attempts to become rich and-or famous.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The knock-on effect here, of course, is to even further widen the already-too-big mechanical gap between a 0th-level (i.e. a commoner) and a 1st-level character; a gap which IMO should be little if any greater than the gap between 1st and 2nd level.

There's no viable solution for this other than some combination of:
--- reduce monster damage and PC hit point values across the board - in other words, rein everything in a bit such that the commoner fits in to the progression again (and as a pleasant side effect this would make commoner hirelings a bit more viable in the field at low level)
--- start play at higher-than-1st level at your table
--- accept as a fact of life that a number - sometimes quite a big number - of low-level characters are going to die in thier attempts to become rich and-or famous.

Options 1 or 3 sound great to me.

 

[Aldarc]

The knock-on effect here, of course, is to even further widen the already-too-big mechanical gap between a 0th-level (i.e. a commoner) and a 1st-level character; a gap which IMO should be little if any greater than the gap between 1st and 2nd level.

There's no viable solution for this other than some combination of:
--- reduce monster damage and PC hit point values across the board - in other words, rein everything in a bit such that the commoner fits in to the progression again (and as a pleasant side effect this would make commoner hirelings a bit more viable in the field at low level)
--- start play at higher-than-1st level at your table
--- accept as a fact of life that a number - sometimes quite a big number - of low-level characters are going to die in thier attempts to become rich and-or famous.

Do you even play 5e?

 

[OB1]

@Clint_L keep in mind that the new CritHit rules aren't a nerf to everyone. Barbarians, Fighters and Monks see no difference with the new rules. They also gain inspiration from a Crit, which is a power bump.

For most other classes the benefit of inspiration outweighs what they are losing from Crits. Clerics, Druids, Rangers and Bards, for example, only have a couple of spells each that can benefit from the old crit rules. Artificers, Sorcerers, and Wizards lose a bit (especially from cantrips) but also gain by being able to hit more reliably with spell slots that require an attack roll by using inspiration.

Warlocks will see a reduction in Eldritch Blast (0.25 per attack), but again, get the benefit of Inspiration. And that's assuming that they don't get an exception to the general rule in a new class feature.

Rogues are trickier, as you have to weigh the lost sneak attack damage against the ability to gain sneak attack without using a bonus action. In play, I've seen our Rogue twice in two sessions use inspiration after disengaging from an enemy to get sneak attack on them, thus getting the 'lost' damage from the initial crit back on the second attack. And again, we don't know if there will be an exception written into the new Rogue Sneak Attack feature that will allow them to either double that damage on a crit, or give them some other bonus. I'm guessing they will.

As for Paladins, they definitely got their Nova damage nerfed (some may say that's a good thing) but hitting more reliably allows them to smite more often. And keep in mind that every smite not used because it's being saved for a crit is lost damage equal to a crit.

And finally for Monsters, the new approach is to have a wider damage range be the driver of randomness in combat rather than relying on Crits to provide those swings. Take a MM CR3 Bugbear Chief. Each of it's hits can do between 5 and 19 damage (spiking to 35 on a crit). The Spelljammer CR3 Astral Elf Warrior, on the other hand, does between 5 and 29 damage on each hit. By building damage spikes into the regular attack, instead of relying on Crits to get those spikes, each hit by an enemy has the potential for a scary swing in momentum, not just the ones that happen after a Crit.