Kraken Variants

[Cleon]

"Krakendraugr (Undead Kraken)" is good. If any Norse speakers want something more exotic sounding, they can use Undead Kraken.

Well most Norwegians speak English, so it won't be that exotic to them…

HD and hp look good now. Str 34, Wis 12 work for me too! And I assume you mean Dex 14 or 15, which is also fine.

It'd be Dexterity 14 if we just add +4 to the standard Kraken's Dex 10.

Blind-Fight, Improved Critical (harpoon arm) and Improved Initiative bonus feats work.

Seems like we're agreed on a bunch of stuff this time!

Updating the Krakendraugr (Undead Kraken).

I'm thinking about treating the harpoon like a grapple, except there's extra damage at the attack rather than constriction later. The DC to get out of the grapple should probably be fixed, but it should take some kind of action to get unstuck, which might as well be given by the grappled condition. What do you think?

I'm sure there are officially published 3E monsters with a Harpoon special attack we could use as a model.

If my memory serves me right, one of them was basically a Giant Harpooning Barnacle, and wasn't there a Harpoon Spider in D&D as well?

Will need to do some reading to check for precedents…

 

[Cleon]

Updating the Krakendraugr (Undead Kraken).

Okay, we have a slight problem in that the AD&D Undead Kraken has THAC0 1, which is 4 superior to a normal Kraken's THAC0 5 while our conversion has +23 melee with its arms which is 5 worse than the SRD Kraken's +28.

I think we should consider giving them a Special Ability that increases their BAB or an attack bonus of some kind, and/or maybe increase their Strength score.

Let's see, if they had 3/4 scaled BAB like an Animal instead of 1/2 like an Undead that'd be… BAB +22 instead of +15 it'd give the harpoon tentacles +30 melee, which is 2 better than a regular Kraken.

That'd do, or we could also increase the Strength by +4 to make it +32 melee so the attack odd is 4 better like the relationship between the AD&D versions of the monster.

Oh, and I'm thinking 40 ft. reach for the harpoon arms, since they've been lengthened and strengthened with strips from the tentacles.

Speaking of strengthening, I'm assuming opponents can sunder the undead kraken's harpoon arms like they can a regular kraken's, but I'd give them more than a regular arm's 10 hit points. I was thinking 15, 18 or even 20 hp?

 

[Cleon]

If my memory serves me right, one of them was basically a Giant Harpooning Barnacle, and wasn't there a Harpoon Spider in D&D as well?

Will need to do some reading to check for precedents…

There's a Harpoon Spider in Monster Manual III, but I couldn't find the harpoon-shooting shellfish.

I think it was in a 3E Adventure I read years ago. I remember the PCs had to go down an underground river that was infested with the things.

Anyhow, the Harpoon Spider has:

Harpooning (Ex): As ranged attacks, a harpoon spider can fire one or two of its fangs up to 20 feet (no range increment). The spider can fire at two different targets if it chooses. A successful hit deals 1d4+1 points of damage as the harpoon hooks the flesh of the target and immediately exudes a thick, sticky glue. The spider can reel in a harpoon as a free action; treat this as a trip attack (+10 bonus) against any creature attached to the fang. Failure indicates that the harpoon rips free (and deals another 1d4+1 points of damage to the victim). Success indicates that the victim is pulled off its feet and dragged back to the spider, who can immediately make a free bite attack against the victim. A harpoon spider can only pull a creature smaller than itself in this manner. Attempts to retract a creature of its own size or larger automatically cause the fang to rip free as if the trip attack failed. The glue exuded by the spider's fangs decomposes quickly, and at the end of the spider's turn the fang automatically detaches.​

Another precedent is Planescape's Bonespear, which does not have an official 3E version but is converted in the Creature Catalog with:

Harpoon (Ex): The bonespear's horns have a range of 40 feet (no range increment). If it hits with a spear attack, the spear lodges in the opponent's body and draws the victim 10 feet closer to the bonespear each subsequent round (no attack of opportunity) unless that creature breaks free, which requires a successful Strength check (DC 20) or Escape Artist check (DC 23). The bonespear can draw a creature to within 5 feet of itself and bite with a +4 attack bonus in that round.​

​

A single attack with a slashing weapon that deals at least 10 points of damage severs the spear (horn) (AC 18).​

There's also the Harpoon thrown weapon that appears in Frostburn or Stormwrack (with identical stats & description) as well as the Arms & Equipment Guide (a older 3.0 source with a slightly different presentation). The rules are as follows:

​

Frostburn and Stormwrack​

15 gp, 1d10/×2 piercing, 10 lb, 30 ft. range increment​

Harpoon: The harpoon is a broad-bladed spear forged with barbs. The shaft of the harpoon has a trailing rope attached to control harpooned opponents. Though designed for hunting whales and other large sea creatures, the harpoon can be used on dry land.​

If it deals damage, the harpoon lodges in an opponent who fails a Reflex saving throw (DC 10 + the damage dealt). A harpooned creature moves at only half speed and cannot charge or run. If you control the trailing rope by succeeding on an opposed Strength check while holding it, the harpooned creature can move only within the limits that the rope allows (the trailing rope is 30 feet long). If the harpooned creature attempts to cast a spell, it must succeed on a DC 15 Concentration check or lose the spell.​

The harpooned creature can pull the harpoon from its wound if it has two free hands and takes a full-round action to do so, but it deals damage to itself equal to the initial damage the harpoon dealt. A character who succeeds on a DC 15 Heal check can remove a harpoon without further damage.​

​

Arms & Equipment Guide (3.0)​

15 gp, 1d10/×2 piercing, 10 lb, 30 ft. range increment​

Harpoon: The harpoon is a broad-bladed spear forged with barbs. The shaft of the harpoon has a trailing rope attached to control harpooned opponents. Though designed for hunting whales and other large sea creatures, the harpoon can be used on dry land. Even with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (harpoon) feat, creatures smaller than Medium-size take a –2 penalty on their attack rolls due to the harpoon's weight and bulk.​

If it deals damage, the harpoon lodges in an opponent who fails a Reflex saving throw against a DC equal to 10 + the damage dealt. The harpooned creature moves at only half speed and cannot charge or run. If you control the trailing rope by succeeding at an opposed Strength check while holding it, the harpooned creature can move only within the limits that the rope allows (the trailing rope is 30 feet long). If the harpooned creature attempts to cast a spell, it must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15) or fail, losing the spell.​

The harpooned creature can pull the harpoon from its wound if it has two free hands and it takes a fullround action to do so, but it deals damage to itself equal to the initial damage the harpoon dealt. For example, if you hit with a harpoon and deal 8 points of damage, the target takes another 8 points of damage when it removes the harpoon. A character who succeeds on a Heal check (DC 15) can remove a harpoon without further damage.​

So can we use any of that?

 

[freyar]

I think I'd prefer just increasing the Str score. That ok for you?

The bonespear harpoon SA looks about right, except for the automatic pull. There's nothing about moving a victim in the original undead kraken, though logically it should be possible --- just not automatically 10 ft a round.

 

[Cleon]

I think I'd prefer just increasing the Str score. That ok for you?

I'd rather it not have its attack lower than a living Kraken, especially as melee attacks are about all it has going for it.

So something like:

Undead Beast #1: a krakendraugr has a base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice, not the ½ total Hit Dice of a normal undead.​

I'm also tempted to add a boost to Saves:

Undead Beast #2: a krakendraugr has a base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice, not the ½ total Hit Dice of a normal undead, and it has all good saves like a dire animal.​

The bonespear harpoon SA looks about right, except for the automatic pull. There's nothing about moving a victim in the original undead kraken, though logically it should be possible --- just not automatically 10 ft a round.

Yes, if it can do it I'd rather it require some kind of opposed contest, maybe treat it like moving a grappled opponent?

 

[freyar]

I can go with option #1 there if I think about it like a template applied to a kraken. Sure. We could give it the good saves of a magical beast if you like, but I don't think I'd go with all good saves.

Yes, agreed on pulling via an opposed grapple check. Want to draft that?

 

[Cleon]

I can go with option #1 there if I think about it like a template applied to a kraken. Sure. We could give it the good saves of a magical beast if you like, but I don't think I'd go with all good saves.

Works for me.

I'll add the following to the Krakendraugr (Undead Kraken):

Undead Beast #3: Instead of having a good Will save and a base attack bonus equal to ½ its Hit Dice like a normal undead, a krakendraugr has good Fortitude and Reflex saves and a base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice.

Oh, and I added +4 to its Strength.

Yes, agreed on pulling via an opposed grapple check. Want to draft that?

How's this:

Harpoon Arms (Ex): A krakendraugr's harpoon arms deal piercing and slashing damage like a talon attack, each arm end in a steel-hard length of cartilage lined with cruel barbs. If a harpoon arm arm hits, the target must succeed at a DC 27 Reflex save or be harpooned. As long as it is impaled, the harpooned creature is considered to be grappled by the krakendraugr, takes a –2 penalty on its attack rolls, and is unable to leave the 40 foot reach of the harpoon arm. Each harpoon arm can only impale a single opponent at a time.

Whenever the krakendraugr makes a harpoon arm attack against a harpooned creature, it can opt to either make an opposed grapple check to move the creature up to 20 feet, or it can attempt to tear the harpoon arm out of the creature (see below). If the krakendraugr pulls a harpooned creature within range of its beak, it can make a bite attack as an Attack of Opportunity.

A creature can pull a harpoon arm out of its wound in a harpooned creature by succeeding at a DC 24 Strength check, but each attempt deals #d#+## piercing and slashing damage to the harpooned creature. The harpooned creature is allowed a DC 27 Fortitude saving throw to take half damage. A creature who takes a full-round action to pull out the harpoon arm makes both a DC 27 Heal check and a DC 24 Strength check. If they succeed at either they pull out the harpoon arm, and if they succeed at both they also remove the harpoon arm without causing further damage.

The saving throws and Heal check are both Dexterity-based; the Strength check DC is 10 plus the Krakendraugr's strength modifier.​

I'm also thinking we should add Expert Grappler?

Expert Grappler (Ex): If a krakendraugr chooses to grapple an opponent but remain ungrappled itself it only takes a –10 penalty on its grapple checks instead of the normal –20 penalty. It may then make harpoon arm attacks as normal.​

 

[freyar]

The Str and Undead Beast seem good.

I like Harpoon Arms with the following changes: (1) Fix the run on in the first sentence: "... like a talon attack; each arm ends ..."
(2) How about "constrict" damage = attack damage but with the Con modifier instead (which would be 0)? Of course we need the arm attack damage.
(3) We need to put in the "see below" about pulling the arm out. Basically, I just think it would be helpful to clarify that the creature attempting to pull the arm out could be the krakendraugr (and that it always just yanks without the Heal check).
That all sound ok to you?

Definitely yes to Expert Grappler.

 

[Cleon]

The Str and Undead Beast seem good.

Definitely yes to Expert Grappler.

Updating the Krakendraugr (Undead Kraken).

I like Harpoon Arms with the following changes: (1) Fix the run on in the first sentence: "... like a talon attack; each arm ends ..."

Fixed the run-on sentence in the update.

(2) How about "constrict" damage = attack damage but with the Con modifier instead (which would be 0)? Of course we need the arm attack damage.

Not quite sure what you mean. An undead kraken has lost the constriction special attack of a regular kraken, replacing it with its harpoon special attack.

We could have it rip the harpoon about in an impaled creature, automatically inflicting damage?

(3) We need to put in the "see below" about pulling the arm out. Basically, I just think it would be helpful to clarify that the creature attempting to pull the arm out could be the krakendraugr (and that it always just yanks without the Heal check).

Yes that bit needs clarification.

Hmm, how about…

A harpoon arm that is impaling a creature can only attack that creature. Whenever the krakendraugr makes a harpoon arm attack against a harpooned creature it automatically inflicts #d#+## damage (halved if the creature maces a DC 27 Fortitude save) and can also opt to make an opposed grapple check to move the creature up to 20 feet and/or tear the harpoon arm out of the creature's flesh (see below). If the krakendraugr pulls a harpooned creature within range of its beak, it can make a bite attack as an Attack of Opportunity.

A creature, including the krakendraugr or one of its impaled victims, can pull a harpoon arm out of a harpooned creature by succeeding at a DC 24 Strength check, but each attempt deals #d#+## piercing and slashing damage to the harpooned creature (or #d#+## damage if the krakendraugr is making a harpoon arm attack to attempt the removal). The harpooned creature is allowed a DC 27 Fortitude saving throw to take half damage. A krakendraugr can "take 10" on this Strength check to automatically succeed at ripping a harpoon arm free. A creature who takes a full-round action to try carefully extracting a harpooning arm makes both a DC 27 Heal check and a DC 24 Strength check. If they succeed at either check they pull out the harpoon arm (doing half damage if the Heal check succeeded, or one-third damage if the victim also made the DC 27 Fort save), and if they succeed at both checks they remove the harpoon arm without causing any damage. Krakendraugr never attempt Heal checks to reduce the damage caused by removing their harpoon arms.​

We need to decide on how much damage their attacks do.

The AD&D original did 2d8 with its six "spear tentacles" and 7d4 with its bite, compared to the 2d6 arms, 3d6 tentacles and 7d4 bite of a standard Kraken.

So it appears their bite does the same damage (hence me giving the Krakendraugr the 4d6 bite of the SRD Kraken) while its harpoon arms are intermediary in damage.

The SRD Kraken has 2d8 tentacles and 1d6 arms.

Hmm… maybe 1d10 like an actual 3E harpoon? That'd make the average damage 19.5 (1d10+14), which at least is inbetween the damage a 3E Kraken does with its tentacles (21 from 2d8+12) and arms (9.5 from 1d6+6).

My plan was the "ripping harpoon arm about in a harpooned creature" should more damage than a normal harpoon arm attack since it's automatically inflicted but does half damage on a Fort save. So maybe double damage, so it does normal harpoon arm damage when halved (i.e. 2d10 + 28), or perhaps a tad less so a Fort roll reduces it to less damage than a "proper impaling" (maybe 2d8 + 21 or 2d10 + 21).

Hmm, I like the 2d8 + 21.

Would also make the damage type piercing and slashing.

For the removal attempt that aren't harpoon arm attacks, I was thinking maybe 6d6 damage per attempt?

 

[freyar]

If I remember correctly, what I meant by "constrict" damage (with quotes) was the damage from the krakendraugr ripping out the harpoon, like you have in the new paragraphs. I think I like these, though maybe we can simplify a little. Have to think about that.

Was the plan 1d10+X for the arms, 2d8+21 for the grapple check damage, and 6d6 for a removal attempt? That seems fine. I think I'd make the removal attempt damage the same for the krakendraugr or for another creature but different from the grapple check damage. They are, after all, different things. Does that work for you?