D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

[Micah Sweet]

Well lets see, there's the MCU, the DC Universe, countless ones encompassing classic martial arts movies, I guarantee if you look hard enough you'll find an example in the forgotten realms (that's not classified as "magic" even).

You keep wanting to equate fictional fighters with THIS real world. But we are not in the real world. Most D&D worlds are lands of magic and myth and legend. How is it even a question that in a land of myth and legend a blind man can overcome the disability without resorting to magic?

Ninja'd by @Cadence!

Because its not what everyone wants out of a fighter, and game designers seem reluctant to create a class that would handle that archetype. Thats the real mystery to me. Maybe making such a class would be too close to admitting the game has shifted genres to superhero.

 

[Vaalingrade]

In what universe is it realistic for a blind person to suffer no penalties in a sword fight?

Fun ones.

Like, say heroic fantasies.

 

[Garthanos]

Maybe making such a class would be too close to admitting the game has shifted genres to superhero.

One of the assertions is since casters are allowed to be that AND high level martial has always been at least called superhero in Chainmail and AD&D, I suppose its not even a jump.

 

[Voadam]

Daredevil, and I'm assuming some martial arts films. Feels like it involves something special enough to be essentially unique to get it though.

Daredevil is explicitly using superpower enhanced senses to counter his blindness.

I would not count that as an example of non magical. His fighting competency is non-magical though.

The blind samurai movie traditions and Stick from Marvel Netflix are a bit unexplained leaning into martial arts supercompetency to loosely explain some unrealistic stuff on their blindfighting.

Ray Charles in Blues Brothers plays on the unrealistic gun competency for humor.

 

[Mort]

Because its not what everyone wants out of a fighter, and game designers seem reluctant to create a class that would handle that archetype. Thats the real mystery to me. Maybe making such a class would be too close to admitting the game has shifted genres to superhero.

Except mythic and legend ALSO doesn't mean superhero. It means mythical and legendary.

Also, the problem with the superhero label is it's so broad and encompasses so much ground that it's basically meaningless!

 

[Fanaelialae]

In what universe is it realistic for a blind person to suffer no penalties in a sword fight? That’s….nuts.

Blind fighting means you can fight without penalty in darkness, even magical darkness. You can fight invisible monsters. You aren’t affected by blindness. It’s awesome. I love that ability.

It's not nuts.

In the my post previous to the one you replied to, I had just explained how such things were not typically considered magical from an Eastern perspective. The blind swordsman who is superior to sighted opponents is a classic trope, and is a result not of magic, but rather of intensive training and skill.

If it's the 5e fighter fighting style you're referring to, it is relatively decent compared to past implementations. Though the opportunity cost is still unreasonably high for something that is fundamentally niche. Have you played a lot of fighters with the Blind Fighting fighting style?

 

[Bill Zebub]

Well lets see, there's the MCU, the DC Universe, countless ones encompassing classic martial arts movies, I guarantee if you look hard enough you'll find an example in the forgotten realms (that's not classified as "magic" even).

You keep wanting to equate fictional fighters with THIS real world. But we are not in the real world. Most D&D worlds are lands of magic and myth and legend. How is it even a question that in a land of myth and legend a blind man can overcome the disability without resorting to magic?

Ninja'd by @Cadence!

I was responding to this comment by @Fanaelialae:

The D&D design for martial characters has generally to be to "err on the side of reality", resulting in fundamentally mundane characters.

The current version of blind fighting is in no way realistic. Absolutely zero penalties to fight another person...multiple other people...without penalties is crazy. Yes, real world blind people teach themselves to echolocate in impressive ways (c.f. This American Life "Batman" episode), but not that well.

Now, maybe that's not fantastic enough for some people. That's a valid opinion. But to argue that it "errs on the side of realism"? That's nuts.

It seems that some people want blind fighting to not just give bonuses (or avoid penalties) in some situations, but to actually be superior than being sighted.

 

[tetrasodium]

That sounds cool. Do you have a link to something similar? (Would be cool to see how aware of the surroundings he seemed, how he was aiming, etc... without having to pepper you with questions). But that's beside the point for me I guess, because...

In any event, Hawkeye could certainly do it, and I am all over having martials get to Hawkeye, Blackwidow, or Cap levels of stuff!

I wonder if the biggest thing holding them back isn't the number of attacks, but how disabling/wounding/one-shottting doesn't work well with the HP system without something like mooks to mow down. (Or some plot armor so that the PCs [and named villains and other heroes] aren't just getting disabled/wounded/one-shotted by their opposite numbers).

Lars Anderson does a lot of that kind of stuff.

 

[Cadence]

Except mythic and legend ALSO doesn't mean superhero. It means mythical and legendary.

Also, the problem with the superhero label is it's so broad and encompasses so much ground that it's basically meaningless!

Mythic and Legendary seem to have the same problem as Superhero to me as a descriptive.

Captain America to Iron Man to Captain Marvel
Odysseus to Beowulf to the Monkey King

and I'm sure similar happens with Anime and other genres.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Fun ones.

Like, say heroic fantasies.

How are we using "realistic/realism" and imaginary universes in the same context? I thought those words had....meaning.